It’s time to build support for a regional school

1. Regional schools, magnets and Urban-Suburban are nice for participants, but do not lead to systemwide change. In the absence of a countywide system, we must look within to desegregate our schools. Dallas and NYC are doing this. Rochester is socioeconomically diverse, but people with means have abandoned our schools. We must do he hard work of encouraging all families to invest in our schools. We need a comprehensive integration plan. Piecemeal approaches don’t work. Rachelformayor.com/education/

2. NYC I believe has a total white student percentage of 15%, many of whom are in high performing schools that require admission exams. Attempting to desegregate the schools by shuffling these students around will only guarantee that in later years the 15%. number will have dropped because parents will have moved out of the City or found private schools. Have we learned nothing from the forced bussing in the early 70’s that engineered the massive white flight from our cities?
   For years I have seen the Black mothers that worked with me face a dilemma that white mothers did not. They preferred to raise their children in the City but would not send their children to inferior schools . So they enrolled in Urban Suburban, Charter schools, and some would move to the Suburbs , mainly for the schools.
   Why not create some small schools within the City that are based upon a combination of entrance exams and parental participation? The goal would be to give an option to the parents who are opting out now. Keep them small so they can keep high standards and not get watered down like some of the prior attempts with magnet schools.

3. Nice words, Rachel. But going door-to-door asking folks to send their kids to city schools (as your link suggests) ain’t gonna desegregate or improve anything. The kids need a good education REGARDLESS of integration or segregation. The change has to come from a systemic commitment to educating ALL kids. The concept that we need need more white kids in city schools to make sure all city kids get educated needs to be demolished.

4. Ms. Kathryn Quinn Thomas — you are exactly right. Your statement is completely on point, except it appears that you didn’t quite finish it. In my humble, but staunchly-unequivocal, and informed view — the statement should have ended as follows “The concept that we need more white kids in city schools to make sure all city kids get educated needs to be demolished” (for two basic reasons) — because: 1) it ain’t gonna happen, and there’s no time left to chase pipe dreams (while Black and brown children flunk out, drop out and die out by the hundreds of thousands, and in fact, by the millions nationally, and 2) it’s a fundamentally racist idea — period.

   I have come to the conclusion that Rachel is apparently a typical, confused, bleeding-heart-white-liberal — who apparently believes that she has a better (perhaps “superior”) understanding of what’s best (academically) for OUR children — than those of us who have the greatest vested interest, and the deepest and clearest knowledge and expertise. That’s potentially dangerous.

   Part of what brings me to this conclusion is the fact that Rachel had sent me an email regarding comments that I made concerning another article about this topic, which appeared here last week ( https://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/roc… ). Her email contained essentially the same information as her comments here. So, I took the time to explain to her (in great detail) why what shew is proposing represents an “old dog” that just won’t hunt.

   MY ABOVE REFERENCED EXPLANATION TO RACHEL IS BELOW:

   Rachel,

   Considering that I have tagged you via numerous Facebook posts regarding education issues, and considering the fact that you have never responded — I was surprised to receive an email from you.

   As a mayoral candidate, I was glad to read that you “believe a strong public school system is vital to our city and our children.” Of course there’s no doubt about that.

   As it relates to a so-called “comprehensive integration programs from WITHIN” — I’m not all that familiar with “what Dallas, and Hartford are doing.” However, I have followed the efforts in New York City (under de Blasio, and Farina), and it appears by all accounts that I’ve seen, and people I’ve spoken with from New York City, that they are failing miserably relative to substantive, widespread change, and/or improvement — mainly because of the same, pivotal issue that have existed in the past, especially and particularly the issue of well organized, and well financed, predominantly white, middle, and upper class resistance.

   https://www.theatlantic.com/education/arch…

   https://www.villagevoice.com/2017/06/29/in…

   http://www.politico.com/states/new-york/ci…

   https://www.the74million.org/article/the-r…

   https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/nyregio…

   https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/nyregio…

   http://citylimits.org/2017/06/16/cityviews…

   http://www.newsweek.com/race-schools-59263…

   Etc… Etc… Etc…

   Although it is true that “our [Rochester’s] most successful city schools are the ones with [some degree of so-called] socioeconomic diversity” — considering the over demographics within “our city schools” — there’s only so much, so-called “socioeconomic [and definitely racial] diversity” that can possibly be achieved. The information below is from the Rochester City School District’s Website: http://www.rcsdk12.org/Domain/8

   By Race

   American Indian and Alaska Native 56 0.19 %
   Asian/ Pacific Islander 1,130 3.77 %
   Black or African American 17,217 57.42 %
   Hispanic 8,414 28.06 %
   Two or More 136 0.45 %
   White 3,031 10.11 %
   Total Enrollment 29,984 100 %

   Interestingly enough, apparently the Rochester City School District (RCSD) has removed (from it’s Website) specific figures regarding percentages of students living in poverty (in accordance with percentages receiving free and reduced-price lunch). Yet, we know without any doubt what so ever that (outside of New York City) Rochester has the highest percentage of children in the state, as well as, one of the highest in the nation, who live in abject poverty. So, again i say, there’s only so much, so-called “socioeconomic diversity” that can possibly be achieved. http://www.actrochester.org/children-youth…

   This leaves us with only one, realistic, viable option, i.e., we must fix the schools where and as they currently stand.

   I don’t recall specifically “proposing mass action” — although it’s quite possible that mass action might be necessary, in the process of developing solutions. What I proposed, and have been proposing for decades, are ideas that are based on my unequivocal belief that there will never be widespread, concrete, measurable, sustainable, fundamental change and/or improvement unless and until a critical mass of thoroughly dedicated people work to successfully develop a deadly-serious movement (see more below).

   With regard to “how this can be achieved” — the only way that I am aware of (based on careful and thorough study of history) — is by a core group of thoroughly committed (for the long haul) individuals deciding that they will make the necessary sacrifices to help provide necessary LEADERSHIP in order to build a movement. I AM CONVINCED THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED SUCH A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS. OUR LATEST STEP IN AN ONGOING PROCESS OCCURRED YESTERDAY: https://www.facebook.com/events/7187832683…

   “A mayor [or a mayoral candidate, or any politician or candidate, an ordinary citizen, or anyone else who is truly concerned about the futures and livelihoods of ALL our children and families] can help” by joining our ongoing efforts to build a movement, and/or starting their own. In my humble, but staunch view — all else is merely super-hyper-rhetoric and noise.

   The Struggle Continues…
   Howard

   WE NEED A MOVEMENT!!!

   EDUCATION COMPONENT:

   As a STARTING POINT, in my humble, but staunch and informed view, we need to get focused (with laser-like precision) on the foundational academic/intellectual development of our children — by doing everything that we possibly can to make certain that they master literacy skills and knowledge — that is, reading, writing, math skills and knowledge at or above grade level (right from the very beginning), which is one of the most important reasons why we must address / change the standardized testing process, i.e., because it is driving everything that happens at the classroom level, and deprives teachers and support staff of the necessary time and energy to concentrate on developing foundational skills and knowledge. Instead, largely because of state and federal mandates, rules, regulations and policies — teachers find themselves (more and more) teaching narrowly to tests. There is no mystery surrounding the reason why so many of our children don’t do well on tests. It’s because they don’t have adequate reading, writing, and math skills, which again represents the very foundation of all knowledge, and which is necessary for them to be able to master higher-order knowledge and skills — such as critical and analytical reading, writing and thinking. So, I’m saying, if we lay the foundation properly, then we won’t have to worry so much about tests. If the proper foundation has been laid, then the testing issue will take care of itself (as long as that which is being tested, is fundamentally the same as that which is being taught). So there are two issues wrapped up together: 1) the need for more local control (as opposed to far too many dictates from the state and federal governments, and 2) the need to free teachers and support staff up — so that they will have the time and energy to focus, again, with laser-like precision, on laying the academic foundation upon which all knowledge and skills-development is built. This issue is even more important when we consider that huge numbers of our children enter the system lagging far behind their middle class peers — right from the very beginning.

   The latter referenced issue is clearly among the most important of all issues we face, and is connected to another issue, i.e., the issue of widespread, concentrated poverty. Please don’t misunderstand me regarding this critically important issue. I do not subscribe (under any circumstances) to any theory or idea about children not being able to learn because they live in poverty. If this was the case, many whom I’ve known (as children of migrant farm workers) would be among the most uneducated people on earth. On the other hand, for us to stick our heads in the sand (as an ostrich would do), and pretend that issues and conditions, which often accompany, i.e., come along with abject poverty — does not impact our ability to educate well — is frankly ludicrous, but the main point is that we need to do all we can to make sure we have the necessary, equitable, resources to provide whatever our children need in order to develop to their full potentials, which is currently not the case, and to be honest, in order to secure such necessary resources probably will require a struggle and a fight (politically speaking). We know that often those who need less — actually get more — because they are well organized and very effective advocates for their children (often exclusively). The other side of this coin is, we must make sure the vast amount of resources that we do receive ($800 million-plus dollars) are being utilized efficiently and effectively, which obviously is not the case currently, and which raises another critical issue that we need to focus on, i.e., rooting out massive waste, and possibly fiscal mismanagement, malfeasance and corruption, which is currently occurring in the Rochester City School District.

   Two other critically important issues, which we must deal with are 1) the need to address individual and institutionalized / systemic / structural racism and the establishment of cultural equity relative to curricula, hiring and retention practices, as well as other ways, including revisiting a number of existing policies and practices. I realize this is a sensitive issue, but it is one that we cannot shy away from. It needs to be addressed; 2) it is amply clear that traditional educational approaches and systems will not work for many of our students, especially many of those who have been shuffled through the system via the criminal practice of social (age) promotion. Therefore, we must get serious about developing authentic, alternative models of education.

   Probably not much of this will get done unless and until we build a deadly serious, ongoing, movement of parents, grandparents, guardians, students, extraordinarily committed educators, politicians, including and especially progressive Board members, and anyone else who is really serious about widespread, fundamental change and improvement — working cooperatively, collaboratively and constantly around concrete, well defined, measurable goals strategies and tactics, which is in essence, what a movement is. Of course, any credible movement must necessarily center around concrete issues and conditions that are negatively impacting our children and families. Those include, but are not limited to the following:

   1. Establishing relevant, broad-based, parent, student and community engagement at every level of the system, and throughout the community (movement)

   2. Addressing/ending systemic, social promotion

   3. Development/Implementation of effective, authentic, alternative educational models

   4. Systemic change regarding standardization (in order to produce a new reality, in which the overall, initial focus is on properly and adequately laying the academic foundation, upon which all else is built)

   5. Addressing/reducing individual and systemic, institutionalized/structural racism, and establishing cultural equity — relative to curricula, and hiring/retention practices

   6. Working for relief from federal and state mandates (increased autonomy, and local/community control)

   7. Reducing/mitigating the impact and effects of concentrated, widespread poverty (equitable resource acquisition, distribution, and efficiency, which includes rooting out massive waste, and possibly fiscal mismanagement, malfeasance and corruption)
   There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the seven (7) areas above represent an objectively correct, and clear direction regarding movement-building. Real and serious efforts to help improve educational conditions for all children in the Rochester City School District — must focus around issues such as those outlined above — period.

   The Struggle Continues…
   Howard

   http://movementstrategy.org/tag/education-…

   ————————————————————————–

   I ALSO HAD EXPLAINED TO HER WHY HER PROPOSAL REPRESENTS AN “OLD DOG” THAT WON’T HUNT (SEE BELOW), AND AFTER ALL OF THIS — APPARENTLY SHE STILL THINKS SHE KNOWS BEST. SHE DOES NOT.

   The Myth Of Dismantling Racial Segregation Within
   the U.S. Public School System: Chasing Pipe Dreams

   By Howard J. Eagle

   This slightly revised article (2004, on the 50th anniversary of the historic Brown v. Board of Education Case) was originally inspired in part by the work of several other authors, which I had read in Education Week during January and February of 2002, including a very lengthy, but limited analysis by a professor named Richard M. Merelman. The central theme of the above referenced authors is a mythical abstraction that they referred to as “resegregation” in public education. In my response, I had argued and maintain that — although it had emerged (during the early months of 2002) as a topic of “scholarly” debate within some education circles — there was and is no such thing as “resegregation” within the U.S. public school system. The plain, simple truth is that, despite the U.S. Supreme Court’s Decision in the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education Case; thousands of citizens’ protests, marches, and demonstrations in the streets; massive busing efforts; federal enforcement efforts, including the use of soldiers in numerous cases; sit-ins, teach-ins, and love-ins on the part of liberals, militants, and “revolutionaries” of every stripe, especially during the 1960’s and 70’s — the U.S. never even came remotely close to achieving full (defacto, as opposed to dejure) desegregation within the vast majority of its public schools. In addition to numerous court cases, such as the Brown Case and many others, (some of which date back to the 1930’s and 40’s) the types of street action described above were clearly, largely responsible for helping to produce a relatively small degree of progress (considering the price that was paid) toward equal, public, educational opportunity for all U.S. citizens. However, in the main, such efforts failed to the extent that the exact same, ongoing, fundamental issue of inequitable resource distribution between predominantly white, middle and upper class, suburban, public school students vis-a-vis predominantly black and brown, poor and working class, urban, public school students, is as real and serious in 2004 — as it was in 1954. This failure can be contributed to numerous factors. One of the most critical and outstanding factors is that accommodations were made for expansion of the black middle class in particular. Many of those who benefited most from accommodations and expansion — had been former leaders, activists, and participants in the types of street actions referenced above. Amazingly, many of the same people became willing “victims” of calculated, cooptation. Thus, due largely to a great vacuum in leadership, caused by desertion on the part of people who had once lent their skills to organizing and fighting so fervently for justice and equality, (apparently only for themselves), sociopolitical movements that had been effective — died.

   Another part of the hard, cold, simple truth is that throughout the history of this nation — the overwhelming majority of wealthy and middle class, white parents in particular — have always made it clear that they are not willing to allow their children to attend schools with large numbers of poor, black and brown children. In fact, wealthy and middle class people of color have also generally chosen to educate their children separately from the poor, black masses.

   It is probably important to pause at this point and remind readers of the fact that, with regard to public education, and specifically as it relates to academic achievement, ongoing discussions regarding the potential worth or value of desegregation and integration, are usually fueled by the underlying reality that (decades after the 1954 Brown Decision, and other types of actions mentioned above) generally, so-called “minority” students attending public schools, lag behind their white counterparts by leaps and bounds. Numerous scholars and others continue to insist that desegregation and integration represent important aspects of the solution that will eliminate this so-called achievement “gap.”

   The idea of desegregation and racial integration representing a remedy relative to effectively addressing the widening achievement “gap” between white students and students of color (anytime soon), is totally unrealistic. This vitally important issue is much too urgent for us to give serious consideration to theories that are seemingly based primarily on people’s romantic wishes, dreams, hopes and prayers — as opposed to some type of scientific approach and/or evidence. It is time to stop pretending and romanticizing about this life and death issue, and come to grips with the total reality that surrounds continued, pervasive, racial segregation within the U.S. public school system(s).

   Clearly, an important part of the reality is that, while integration may be desirable for some — there are far more people, especially middle and upper class whites — who do not, never have, and probably never will support racial integration of public schools. Although this reality applies to considerably more white people, particularly parents, than any other racial group — it is not (exclusively) a white phenomenon. For example, in addition to hundreds of thousands of white educators, there are many blacks and other parents of color who make their livings by working in predominantly black and brown urban schools, but would never consider sending their own children to the same school systems in which they work (even if there were no residency laws preventing them from doing so). More often than not, urban educators (both white and those of color) live in suburban areas. Although it hinges on sick thinking — I am thoroughly convinced that it is not far-fetched to believe that many people of color who reside in suburban areas, would oppose full, racial integration of public schools.

   The degree and depth of resistance represents the main reason why racial integration is not a timely, practical, nor realistic solution for addressing the hard core, entrenched, massive, educational failure experienced in economically poor, predominantly black and Hispanic, urban school districts throughout the United States. It is precisely due to the fact that large numbers of people, especially people of color, have come to realize and understand the depth and pervasiveness of resistance, that many are no longer willing to spend another 50 or 100 years fighting and struggling to achieve the unlikely and unrealistic goal of public school integration.

   For decades, many African Americans have viewed the idea of integration as being a matter of chasing pipe dreams, or a waste of precious time and energy that would be better spent on attempts to improve their public schools now (regardless of the socioeconomic and racial compositions of the student bodies). The latter point represents a major reason why (as pointed out by professor Richard M. Merelman), organizations such as … “the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which designed and executed the arduous legal strategy that [theoretically] won school desegregation in the courts, now has difficulty maintaining a public posture favorable to it against an indifferent and sometimes hostile membership” (Education Week, Feb. 6, 2002, p. 52). It is not likely that the majority of rank and file NAACP members are “indifferent” to the serious, deep-seated, widespread failure, and/or other problems that exist in poverty stricken, urban schools. On the contrary — they are probably quite concerned. Yet, there is no denying that many of them are absolutely “indifferent and sometimes hostile” relative to the idea of continuing to pursue public school integration as a possible, immediate, or near-future solution. They have undoubtedly joined the ranks of millions who are very, very tired of chasing pipe dreams.

   Indeed, there is a need to carefully consider what will happen to the generations of predominantly black and brown children who are currently left with no choices, except attending segregated, underfunded, relatively poor, urban public schools. One thing is certain: If their academic well being and progress is dependent upon the unlikely advent of racial integration — such students will not become beneficiaries of significantly improved educational opportunities. Once again, it is impossible to overemphasize the fact that this unlikelihood is based on thoroughly pervasive, organized resistance — fueled by irrational racist and classist values and belief systems, especially, but not exclusively, on the part of middle and upper class, wealthy, white parents.

   For those who are convinced that integration is, in part, or totally, the solution that will ‘fix’ the urban education crisis — current and long range strategy is the key, pivotal issue. This is the most notable area in which staunch supporters and advocates of public school integration fall short. With regard to addressing the crisis, some scholars and others insist that the solution, or at least a significant part of it, lies within the need to “break up concentrated poverty,” which is another way of saying, there is a need to integrate public schools. Yet, these same advocates and supporters of integration are lacking, and in fact, totally deficient relative to development and/or implementation of practical, effective strategies and tactics that can be utilized to bring their proposed solution into fruition — without having to wait another two or three hundred years, which is the worst possible thing that people who are most in need of change can afford to do.

   In addition to those referenced above, there are many other people who continue to advocate and fight for urban, educational improvement, but for the most part (understandably so) — in the face of widespread, predominantly white, well organized, and well financed resistance — have given up on racial integration as a potential solution. This does not necessarily mean that such people are pro-segregation or pro-“resegregation” (if there is such a thing relative to public education in the U.S., which I maintain — there is not). In order for something to be reinstated or reinstituted — it necessarily has to exist first. Since desegregation, and certainly integration, has never occurred on any substantial level within the U.S. public school system, it is not really possible, nor is it historically accurate or intellectually honest to engage in serious dialogue or discussion about so-called “resegregation.” Many people who clearly understand the desperate need for fundamental change and academic improvement within urban schools throughout the nation, but do not accept racial integration as a realistic or viable solution, often support the following, or similar position(s): As it relates to urban, public schools in the main, (vis-a-vis overwhelmingly, predominantly white, suburban schools, in which children are generally doing well academically and otherwise) the reality that massive numbers of socioeconomically poor, African American and Hispanic children in particular, are flunking out, dropping out, dying out, and/or being imprisoned at younger ages than ever before — dictates the necessity of providing major amounts of additional, financial resources, human energy and commitment in order to produce significant, fundamental change and improvement within urban, public schools now! Those who support this or similar positions, often argue that we can worry about integration later — if at all. They also often insist (correctly so) that it is mainly white Americans (as opposed to people of color) who need to be convinced of the morality, importance, and value of integration. Urban students, as well as all students — don’t necessarily need integration or segregation: What they need is adequate and appropriate education!

   With regard to professor Merelman’s above referenced Education Week Commentary, the essential argument that the scholar attempts (unconvincingly) to advance is that equitable, educational opportunities and significant academic improvement for economically poor, urban, public school children is totally dependent upon the wealth and deeds of white, suburban parents. He argues that… “white parents have more money than black parents to pay for schools, public or private. Parents are mainly interested in good schools for their own children, not for the children of others. It follows that whites will only support black students who happen to be in school with white children. Thus, only if they are sitting next to white children will black children benefit educationally” (p. 37). This is an incredibly shallow assertion, which seems to hinge upon acceptance of institutionalized racism. The argument completely ignores the fact that U.S. States are bound by their Constitutions to provide equitable educational opportunities for all children — regardless of race, socioeconomic status, or any other variable. Perhaps the intended point that the author was attempting to make is that — since predominantly white, suburban parents and communities (vis-a-vis predominantly African American and Hispanic, urban parents and communities) are generally far more wealthy and economically stable, as well as, a lot more organized politically — the former group exercises considerably more clout and control over local, state, and federal legislative bodies, which are responsible for allocating resources to public schools. Herein lies one of the most critical factors embodied within institutionalized discrimination and injustice, which helps perpetuate the shameful, national, urban education crisis. That is to say, as it relates to resource allocation, nearly every state legislature in the Union has devised indecipherable financial aid “formulas,” (usually based largely on property tax) which clearly favor predominantly white, politically well organized, parents and children from wealthy suburban school districts — while blatantly discriminating against predominantly African Americans and Hispanics, as well as other parents and children from less organized, economically poor, urban school districts. Such legally sophisticated, institutionalized racism and classism has always been an inherent part of the U.S. economic and political systems. With regard to providing equitable (not equal, but equitable) funding and equal, public, educational opportunities — the overall situation is literally a classic example of “robin-hood-in-reverse,” i.e., literally taking from the poor, and giving to the rich.

   Until and unless decisive, and probably mass action is taken — professor Merelman is absolutely correct regarding his contention that… “poor black parents, underfunded [so-called] minority school districts, and low-tax-base, largely black cities [will] continue their losing struggle to come up with educational money they don’t have.” As noted at the outset of this treatise, U.S. history bears witness to the fact that the only type of action that is likely to be effective relative to helping to secure additional, much needed, and much deserved resources for economically poor, urban school districts is community organizing and civil disobedience, including, if necessary — protesting in the halls of local, state, and federal governments — as well as, in the streets. There is absolutely no question about the fact that the cause (demand for equitable public education funding, and equality regarding educational opportunities for all children now) is a just one! The cause is in fact the same one in 2004 that produced the well intentioned, but largely ineffective Brown Decision of 1954. As it relates to prospects for change and improvement, a critical missing element, which existed 50 years earlier, is the lack of bold, committed, courageous, political leadership, particularly within the nation’s most depressed and oppressed communities. It is totally amazing that those who are considered and/or have been appointed as part of the official and unofficial, elected and non-elected leadership and “representatives” of urban constituencies — have been able for as long as they have, (without a firestorm of public criticism and disownership by those whom they claim to represent) to get away with not initiating decisive and indeed radical actions — designed to effectively produce significant, widespread improvement relative to the scandalous, national, urban education crisis.

   Lastly, the remote possibility of racial integration representing part of the solution relative to the crisis in urban, public education, is an issue and question that is largely dependent upon the commitment of its advocates, especially white persons. For those who are serious about their belief in the morality and value of racial integration, and truly committed to bringing it into existence, huge numbers of white people in particular, must necessarily be willing to confront the deep-seated, irrational, racism harbored in the hearts and minds of their mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, neighbors and colleagues. It is important to consider that, historically speaking, (in the main) people of color have not been guilty of establishment and maintenance of pervasive, organized, resistance to racial integration within the U.S. . On the contrary, there is probably no example in the history of the world in which people have surpassed the efforts of African Americans and other people of color to integrate into a society that has repeatedly rejected them as equals. It would not be morally or ethically right, nor would it be logical to now blame African Americans and/or other people of color for being sick and tired of chasing that which certainly appears to be a pipe dream.

5. Fgf

   Part of your post is on-point, but the part about “creating some small schools within the City that are based upon a combination of entrance exams and parental participation. The goal would be to give an option to [MAINLY WHITE, AND MIDDLE CLASS] parents who are opting out now. Keep them small so they can keep high standards and not get watered down like some of the prior attempts with magnet schools” — SMACKS OF OVER-RESOURCED, AND/OR INEQUITABLE, RESOURCE-DRAINING, ELITIST, MAINLY LILY-WHITE ENCLAVES (WITHIN DESERTS OF ABJECT FAILURE AND NEGLECT). NAW — I SAY — LET THEM LEAVE. WE MUST FIX ALL OF THE SCHOOLS — AS AN WHERE THEY STAND — PERIOD.

6. Dear Ms. Towler,

   “The answer, then, is to create urban-suburban schools in the city.” WHAT??? WHO TOLD YOU THAT???

   “The answer, they say, is not to sit middle-class white children next to poor black ones and hope that something magical rubs off.” WHAT??? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU IMAGINE “POOR BLACK CHILDREN [WOULD WANT OR NEED TO SO-CALLED] RUB OFF” — WHITENESS???

   BY THE WAY — YOU ARE UNDOING PARTS OF YOUR OWN ARGUMENT, I.E., INTERNAL CONTRADICTIONS ARE THE DEEPEST SORT. FOR EXAMPLE YOU CLAIM THAT: “It’s important to hire more black teachers. A relevant curriculum is essential. But neither can bring about the change we need. The effects of concentrated poverty on children are too big to overcome.” YET, YOU CLEARLY SEEM TO THINK (COMPARATIVELY) THAT A SINGLE, SO-CALLED “REGIONAL SCHOOL” REPRESENTS SOME SORT OF MAGICAL PANACEA, WHICH WILL SIGNIFICANTLY COUNTER THE “big effects of concentrated poverty on children.” HOW IS THAT????

   ALSO,THE FOLLOWING IS A VERY, VERY STRANGE STATEMENT: “If you live in the city, keep the pressure on the Rochester school board. If you’re in the suburbs, start talking to your school district’s leaders.” WHY IS THE DIRECTIVE DIFFERENT FOR “CITY” RESIDENTS VIS-A-VIS “SUBURBAN” ONES???

7. Kathryn, I didn’t say white children. I said people with means. Studies show socioeconomic integration works. Our best city schools are the economically diverse ones. The only way to replicate them is to get more people to invest in our schools and provide opportunity to all children. We must create diverse and equitable schools – for all kids. That takes hard work and tough conversations. That takes a plan. We can take action, or continue to throw up our hands and accept the abandonment of our schools and city. (Despite City Hall’s fuzzy math, census data shows we’ve lost population and have fewer employed residents since 2013. )

8. Howard my point was simply that the City Schools are losing a lot of Black Middle class children to other Districts and Private schools. From my observations,over many years ,I’ve seen most of them go on to good colleges, many with academic scholarships.
   I have no expertise in education, but it seems to me the City schools are losing out on the children of parents that would prefer not to have left if they had a quality option within the City.

9. Dear Mrs. Towler and others,

   I suggest reading the book, “Thank You for Arguing” by Jay Heinrichs. The latest edition 3 just came out. Copies of earlier editions can be found in the library:

   https://www.amazon.com/Thank-You-Arguing-T…

   Also, you may get some ideas from the author’s pages:

   http://www.ArgueLab.com

   http://www.jayheinrichs.com/

   Perhaps if we can come up with better ideas and better arguments, we can make progress to integrate and motivate our failing schools.

   THANKS MUCH Harry
   ——————————
   http://www.SavingSchools.org

10. This is a BIG problem. It’s not about creating another program, or in this case a Regional school (which I’m not against, btw). The real issue is much more than the schools.

    If there is concentrated poverty in the city, what is happening to fix it? In fact I see policies that worsen it, like the minimum wage and regulations.

    The entire mindset of the city needs to change. It’s not just the schools .

11. johnny,

    “The real issue is much more than the schools.” WHAT??? Stop it. The old,old chicken & egg argument that the schools are thoroughly decrepit, and largely ineffective because of “concentrated poverty,” or concentrated poverty exists, and is continuing to grow because the schools are thoroughly decrepit — is exactly that, i.e., old and tired. CONCENTRATED POVERTY, OR NO CONCENTRATED POVERTY — THE SCHOOLS MUST BE FIXED (RIGHT WHERE THEY STAND) — NO IF, ANDS, OR BUTS; NO DEBATES — PERIOD.

    If it is true that “the entire mindset of the city [but apparently NOT the suburbs] needs to change” — then this obviously must hold true for predominantly black and brown, decrepit cities [but NOT ‘perfect’ suburbs] throughout this thoroughly racist, white-supremacist-based nation-state (in every direction — North, South, East, and West) — since conditions are generally the same. get it? Probably not.

    https://www.amazon.com/No-Excuses-Crisis-E…

12. Harry,

    The thoroughly irrelevant book that you’re promoting has absolutely nothing to do with the old. old. overwhelmingly, predominantly Black and brown, urban education crisis.

    As noted in one of your posts — obviously you “have no expertise in education.” Otherwise you would NOT continue pushing idiotic (in the original sense and meaning of the term) ideas such as, if “we come up with better ideas and better arguments, we can make progress to integrate and motivate our failing schools.” WHAT??? We have all of the knowledge and research-based logical, valid, informed, ideas that we need (see some of the most important below) in order to significantly and permanently improve urban schools. There is no lack of knowledge, expertise, nor solid ideas. What’s lacking is socioeconomic, sociopolitical, and sociocultural WILL — period. By the way, there’s NOT going to be any “progress [relative to so-called] integrating our schools. IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN — NOT IN OUR LIFETIMES. You can just put that out of your mind. I’ve explained numerous times why it’s NOT gonna happen. I’m not going to explain it again, but it’s irritating that the likes of you, Mary Anna Towler. Rachel Barnhart, and other know-it-all, bleeding-heart-liberals just keep on beating that old, dead. horse. Stop it.

    WE NEED A MOVEMENT!!!

    EDUCATION COMPONENT:

    As a STARTING POINT, in my humble, but staunch and informed view, we need to get focused (with laser-like precision) on the foundational academic/intellectual development of our children — by doing everything that we possibly can to make certain that they master literacy skills and knowledge — that is, reading, writing, math skills and knowledge at or above grade level (right from the very beginning), which is one of the most important reasons why we must address / change the standardized testing process, i.e., because it is driving everything that happens at the classroom level, and deprives teachers and support staff of the necessary time and energy to concentrate on developing foundational skills and knowledge. Instead, largely because of state and federal mandates, rules, regulations and policies — teachers find themselves (more and more) teaching narrowly to tests. There is no mystery surrounding the reason why so many of our children don’t do well on tests. It’s because they don’t have adequate reading, writing, and math skills, which again represents the very foundation of all knowledge, and which is necessary for them to be able to master higher-order knowledge and skills — such as critical and analytical reading, writing and thinking. So, I’m saying, if we lay the foundation properly, then we won’t have to worry so much about tests. If the proper foundation has been laid, then the testing issue will take care of itself (as long as that which is being tested, is fundamentally the same as that which is being taught). So there are two issues wrapped up together: 1) the need for more local control (as opposed to far too many dictates from the state and federal governments, and 2) the need to free teachers and support staff up — so that they will have the time and energy to focus, again, with laser-like precision, on laying the academic foundation upon which all knowledge and skills-development is built. This issue is even more important when we consider that huge numbers of our children enter the system lagging far behind their middle class peers — right from the very beginning.

    The latter referenced issue is clearly among the most important of all issues we face, and is connected to another issue, i.e., the issue of widespread, concentrated poverty. Please don’t misunderstand me regarding this critically important issue. I do not subscribe (under any circumstances) to any theory or idea about children not being able to learn because they live in poverty. If this was the case, many whom I’ve known (as children of migrant farm workers) would be among the most uneducated people on earth. On the other hand, for us to stick our heads in the sand (as an ostrich would do), and pretend that issues and conditions, which often accompany, i.e., come along with abject poverty — does not impact our ability to educate well — is frankly ludicrous, but the main point is that we need to do all we can to make sure we have the necessary, equitable, resources to provide whatever our children need in order to develop to their full potentials, which is currently not the case, and to be honest, in order to secure such necessary resources probably will require a struggle and a fight (politically speaking). We know that often those who need less — actually get more — because they are well organized and very effective advocates for their children (often exclusively). The other side of this coin is, we must make sure the vast amount of resources that we do receive ($800 million-plus dollars) are being utilized efficiently and effectively, which obviously is not the case currently, and which raises another critical issue that we need to focus on, i.e., rooting out massive waste, and possibly fiscal mismanagement, malfeasance and corruption, which is currently occurring in the Rochester City School District.

    Two other critically important issues, which we must deal with are 1) the need to address individual and institutionalized / systemic / structural racism and the establishment of cultural equity relative to curricula, hiring and retention practices, as well as other ways, including revisiting a number of existing policies and practices. I realize this is a sensitive issue, but it is one that we cannot shy away from. It needs to be addressed; 2) it is amply clear that traditional educational approaches and systems will not work for many of our students, especially many of those who have been shuffled through the system via the criminal practice of social (age) promotion. Therefore, we must get serious about developing authentic, alternative models of education.

    Probably not much of this will get done unless and until we build a deadly serious, ongoing, movement of parents, grandparents, guardians, students, extraordinarily committed educators, politicians, including and especially progressive Board members, and anyone else who is really serious about widespread, fundamental change and improvement — working cooperatively, collaboratively and constantly around concrete, well defined, measurable goals strategies and tactics, which is in essence, what a movement is. Of course, any credible movement must necessarily center around concrete issues and conditions that are negatively impacting our children and families. Those include, but are not limited to the following:

    1. Establishing relevant, broad-based, parent, student and community engagement at every level of the system, and throughout the community (movement)

    2. Addressing/ending systemic, social promotion

    3. Development/Implementation of effective, authentic, alternative educational models

    4. Systemic change regarding standardization (in order to produce a new reality, in which the overall, initial focus is on properly and adequately laying the academic foundation, upon which all else is built)

    5. Addressing/reducing individual and systemic, institutionalized/structural racism, and establishing cultural equity — relative to curricula, and hiring/retention practices

    6. Working for relief from federal and state mandates (increased autonomy, and local/community control)

    7. Reducing/mitigating the impact and effects of concentrated, widespread poverty (equitable resource acquisition, distribution, and efficiency, which includes rooting out massive waste, and possibly fiscal mismanagement, malfeasance and corruption)
    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the seven (7) areas above represent an objectively correct, and clear direction regarding movement-building. Real and serious efforts to help improve educational conditions for all children in the Rochester City School District — must focus around issues such as those outlined above — period.

    The Struggle Continues…
    Howard

    http://movementstrategy.org/tag/education-…

13. Harry,

    Again, your so-called, “simple point” is thoroughly irrelevant. Even if it’s true “that the City Schools are losing a lot of Black Middle class children to other Districts and Private schools [,and] the City schools are losing out on the children of parents that would prefer not to have left if they had a quality option within the City ” — SO WHAT??? Describing problems is NOT the same as solving them.

    WE NEED A MOVEMENT!!!

    EDUCATION COMPONENT:

    As a STARTING POINT, in my humble, but staunch and informed view, we need to get focused (with laser-like precision) on the foundational academic/intellectual development of our children — by doing everything that we possibly can to make certain that they master literacy skills and knowledge — that is, reading, writing, math skills and knowledge at or above grade level (right from the very beginning), which is one of the most important reasons why we must address / change the standardized testing process, i.e., because it is driving everything that happens at the classroom level, and deprives teachers and support staff of the necessary time and energy to concentrate on developing foundational skills and knowledge. Instead, largely because of state and federal mandates, rules, regulations and policies — teachers find themselves (more and more) teaching narrowly to tests. There is no mystery surrounding the reason why so many of our children don’t do well on tests. It’s because they don’t have adequate reading, writing, and math skills, which again represents the very foundation of all knowledge, and which is necessary for them to be able to master higher-order knowledge and skills — such as critical and analytical reading, writing and thinking. So, I’m saying, if we lay the foundation properly, then we won’t have to worry so much about tests. If the proper foundation has been laid, then the testing issue will take care of itself (as long as that which is being tested, is fundamentally the same as that which is being taught). So there are two issues wrapped up together: 1) the need for more local control (as opposed to far too many dictates from the state and federal governments, and 2) the need to free teachers and support staff up — so that they will have the time and energy to focus, again, with laser-like precision, on laying the academic foundation upon which all knowledge and skills-development is built. This issue is even more important when we consider that huge numbers of our children enter the system lagging far behind their middle class peers — right from the very beginning.

    The latter referenced issue is clearly among the most important of all issues we face, and is connected to another issue, i.e., the issue of widespread, concentrated poverty. Please don’t misunderstand me regarding this critically important issue. I do not subscribe (under any circumstances) to any theory or idea about children not being able to learn because they live in poverty. If this was the case, many whom I’ve known (as children of migrant farm workers) would be among the most uneducated people on earth. On the other hand, for us to stick our heads in the sand (as an ostrich would do), and pretend that issues and conditions, which often accompany, i.e., come along with abject poverty — does not impact our ability to educate well — is frankly ludicrous, but the main point is that we need to do all we can to make sure we have the necessary, equitable, resources to provide whatever our children need in order to develop to their full potentials, which is currently not the case, and to be honest, in order to secure such necessary resources probably will require a struggle and a fight (politically speaking). We know that often those who need less — actually get more — because they are well organized and very effective advocates for their children (often exclusively). The other side of this coin is, we must make sure the vast amount of resources that we do receive ($800 million-plus dollars) are being utilized efficiently and effectively, which obviously is not the case currently, and which raises another critical issue that we need to focus on, i.e., rooting out massive waste, and possibly fiscal mismanagement, malfeasance and corruption, which is currently occurring in the Rochester City School District.

    Two other critically important issues, which we must deal with are 1) the need to address individual and institutionalized / systemic / structural racism and the establishment of cultural equity relative to curricula, hiring and retention practices, as well as other ways, including revisiting a number of existing policies and practices. I realize this is a sensitive issue, but it is one that we cannot shy away from. It needs to be addressed; 2) it is amply clear that traditional educational approaches and systems will not work for many of our students, especially many of those who have been shuffled through the system via the criminal practice of social (age) promotion. Therefore, we must get serious about developing authentic, alternative models of education.

    Probably not much of this will get done unless and until we build a deadly serious, ongoing, movement of parents, grandparents, guardians, students, extraordinarily committed educators, politicians, including and especially progressive Board members, and anyone else who is really serious about widespread, fundamental change and improvement — working cooperatively, collaboratively and constantly around concrete, well defined, measurable goals strategies and tactics, which is in essence, what a movement is. Of course, any credible movement must necessarily center around concrete issues and conditions that are negatively impacting our children and families. Those include, but are not limited to the following:

    1. Establishing relevant, broad-based, parent, student and community engagement at every level of the system, and throughout the community (movement)

    2. Addressing/ending systemic, social promotion

    3. Development/Implementation of effective, authentic, alternative educational models

    4. Systemic change regarding standardization (in order to produce a new reality, in which the overall, initial focus is on properly and adequately laying the academic foundation, upon which all else is built)

    5. Addressing/reducing individual and systemic, institutionalized/structural racism, and establishing cultural equity — relative to curricula, and hiring/retention practices

    6. Working for relief from federal and state mandates (increased autonomy, and local/community control)

    7. Reducing/mitigating the impact and effects of concentrated, widespread poverty (equitable resource acquisition, distribution, and efficiency, which includes rooting out massive waste, and possibly fiscal mismanagement, malfeasance and corruption)
    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the seven (7) areas above represent an objectively correct, and clear direction regarding movement-building. Real and serious efforts to help improve educational conditions for all children in the Rochester City School District — must focus around issues such as those outlined above — period.

    The Struggle Continues…
    Howard

    http://movementstrategy.org/tag/education-…

14. Darn Rachel,

    You don’t give up do you? You’re proving what MANY BLACK PEOPLE say about you, i.e., that you think you know (better than WE do) what’s best for US. You don’t.

    So, since this takes “tough conversations” — where can we go and join in the “tough conversations???”

    Since it “takes a plan” — where can we go and join with those who are serious about developing a “plan” NOW???

    Since “we can take action” — where can we go and join with those who are taking action NOW???

    These are NOT rhetorical questions.

15. This is really getting old. Why are we still talking about what “should” be done? Why hasn’t “it” been done already? The city schools have been a mess for decades. Obviously the wrong people are in charge. One thing we need to do is stop doing what “feels” good and start doing what “is” good.

    Want to improve the education of Rochester’s children? At the beginning of the year, present to each child or their guardian a check for roughly $18,000. Let them choose what school to attend, including private schools. Private schools are doing a better job for half the money. Let completion in the schools lead to a more educated Rochester

16. johnny, the outcome is COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE regarding your idea of “presenting each child or their guardian a check for roughly $18,000. Let them choose what school to attend, including private schools.” MOST will still end up attending decrepit RCSD schools, and we KNOW why. Back to the drawing board…

17. “MOST will still end up attending decrepit RCSD schools, and we KNOW why.”-Howard

    Well call me stupid, Howard, but I don’t know why they would go to the same schools? Please respond in 1 paragraph or less. Thank you

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