A
21st-century Renaissance man, Henry Rollins is a vehement voice for our
slightly disenfranchised generation through his writings, ruminations, heavy
music, and spoken-word performances. He seems to have all 10 fingers each in a
different pie, yet still manages to maintain focus, asking hard questions and
providing genuine answers with anecdotes and insight. Rollins pulls no punches.
Rollins is real.
City: What do you think about the impending war in Iraq?
Rollins:
Well, it sounds like it’s impending. It sounds like there’s nothing we can
do to get out of it.
My bottom line is this: When you
have a situation like this, the diplomatic way out of the war should be the
needle in the haystack, where you rip every piece of hay out of that huge
haystack, you exhaust every possible means of diplomatic solution before you go
to war.
War should be the failure. War
should be, “OK, the needle eluded us. It was there, but we couldn’t find it.”
And with our heads hung low, we realize we have failed. Because war is failure.
If you see war as really screwing up, then to me, it makes the diplomatic
solution that much more of an urgent thing to pursue.
It just seems that our President
seems to be going, “Yeah, yeah, diplomatic stuff is cool, but I really want to
go to war.”
“Can’t we let the inspectors
finish?”
“Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he already
broke a rule, so let’s go.”
We knew dealing with this guy was
never going to be straight down the line, so let’s just take a minute and do
our work. They said these inspections were going to take months. They’ve been
in there for weeks, and already it’s “Lace ’em up, boys, safeties off, let’s
go.”
Do we really need to run at this?
It’s not like Iraq’s going anywhere. We can bomb them tomorrow. Can’t we walk
to this? Why are we power-walking to this?
If we’re supposed to value human
life over everything else, shouldn’t we be dragging our feet toward the war?
All you’re going to get is casualties. And I don’t care what side they’re on
— any casualty sucks. You’re blowing up some guy’s mama, you’re killing some
woman’s son. None of this is good.
We’re going to have people coming
home in boxes, too, and we haven’t had that happen since Vietnam. For two
generations, no one has known the horror of that.
City: In
some of your writings, you’ve referred to American youth as a “bunch of
pussies.”
Rollins:
I said this playfully. The way they’re raised, the conveniences — I’m
talking about white culture.
City: How about from the
rock ‘n’ roll, Rollins Band perspective? It seems to me the most vital music
today is being made by our generation.
Rollins:
Yeah, we’re coming from, “Get your pop out of my rock ‘n’ roll. Get your
peanut butter out of my chocolate.”
Pop has become so ensconced in rock
‘n’ roll, [but] there’s a line. It’s the whole Beatles/Stones thing. One’s pop,
the other’s rock. I love them both, but there’s a line.
Now, in the hardest, drop-D,
pierced-face thing, you’re still gonna find the pop edge. Why? Because that’s
the key to MTV, radio play, and multi-platinum sales. And as hard as you want
to go, that’s the drag. They wimp out and have that multi-layered chorus.
City:
But you’re doing what’s right for you.
Rollins:
Thankfully, there’s nothing I could do to be more commercially viable, so
it’s not a temptation, it’s not an alternative for me. Lou Reed said it so well
when he said, “I’m so obscure, I’m left alone to do what I want.” That’s always
been my situation.
Black Flag is more legendary than it
is popular, but like Lemmy [of Motörhead] says, “I wish all the people that
bought the T-shirt bought the record.”
Everyone goes, “Yeah, Black Flag!”
“Yeah? Did you buy any of the
records?”
“Well, no.”
“Did you ever see the band?”
“Well, too young.”
OK, it was a hundred years ago, and
if you look at the Sound Scan on these records, they, to this day, don’t do
well, judging from my royalty statements. You could probably say the same thing
about The Velvet Underground or The Stooges. They were legendary, where their
record sales were not. And people are missing out. They should buy these records.
They’re magnificent.
What you have now is the industry
dictating the art, where the art used to dictate the industry. The Stooges were
not going to relent. Nor the Velvet Underground.
“Why don’t you make this nicer?”
“Why don’t you go kiss my ass?” They
wouldn’t ever consider it. The A&R guy was doing drugs with the band. Now the A&R guy is getting the singer a boob job
and getting them to fire the drummer. So now you have the emergence of true,
uncut, corporate rock.
To me, that’s Creed and Nickelback.
That’s corporate music.
City: Do
you see it as kind of a sign that both Joey Ramone and Joe Strummer died before
actually making it into the Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall Of Fame?
Rollins:
You can say that as long as you qualify getting into the Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall
Of Fame as “making it.” You’re putting a premium on the Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall Of
Fame.
The last time I was there, they had
a life-size cut-out of Britney Spears in the lobby. To me, that just
says, “Let’s get some rocks. This place is glass. Let’s go!”
I said to the audience that night in
Cleveland, “If The Ramones don’t get inducted someday, let’s bomb this place with bricks.” And a year later, they
were inducted — like I had anything to do with it. It’s a statement on how
culture catches up.
Greg Ginn [of Black Flag] said years
ago, “The revolution will be
televised.” That’s such a huge concept, because it’s true. It’ll be
Pay-Per-View. Sony will do the soundtrack. It’ll be co-opted so quickly.
Culture absorbs everything at such a
rate, it’s like an amoeba. It assimilates it, it uploads it, and you’ll hear
one of the cast of Friends say it in
two weeks. Media is consumer-oriented, and anything “culture” gets uploaded
quickly, because now it’s for sale.
City:
Is there anything out there you’re listening to that you like?
Rollins:
I listen to music I like everyday. I really like J Mascis’ new record. He
has a new band called The Fog, so he’s not new, but he still makes really
good-sounding records.
I like the last Slayer record a lot.
I like the last Dylan record. I’ve got time for that Audioslave record; I think
it’s pretty cool. But after about eight songs, I think the idea wears out
before the enthusiasm does. They have the A riff, the B riff, the jam part, and
it’s kind of a formula, but I like all the players and I like that singer.
There are two bands coming out on
Dischord Records [run by Ian MacKaye of Fugazi] that I think are really worth
checking out. One is a band called El Guapo. I just got the promo CD. It’s
stunning. Amazing.
Another band is The Black Eyes.
Their album comes out in April. Incredible. It’s probably going to be my
favorite record of this year. I’ve never heard anything like it. It’s new.
They’re on fire. The singer’s nuts. It’s everything you want.
My favorite record last year was a
bootleg, Nugent ’78 — The Cow Jam.
Finally! A Nugent bootleg that sounded like what I used to see him do.
City: Both
you and Ted Nugent are outspoken individuals who first entered the world
through rock. Where do you differ?
Rollins:
We’re both someone people listen to. I think we’ll both tell you we’re
doing good things.
I don’t have any real inherent
problem with anything Ted Nugent says. He’s interviewed me. I’ve done the radio
show. I’ve hung out with him a number of times. We’ve argued on things. I mean,
I’m not against killing deer. It’s not like he’s killing it and throwing it
away — he’s eating it. I eat a hamburger, somebody else just did it for me.
I saw him play a couple of summers
ago, opening for KISS. I didn’t mind “I’m going to play so sexy tonight all the
faggots are going to be eating pussy.” Whatever. I’m sure no gay guy cares.
But then he goes, “Speak English or
get the fuck out of my country.”
Well, yes, if you do live here,
please speak English. It takes 20 minutes to learn — hard consonants, very
simple.
But “get out of my country?”
Go back to Michigan. Go back to your
little country in Jackson, Michigan, if that’s the way you are. He and I’ve got
a bone to pick there.
He’s interesting, and I don’t think
his way of thinking is dangerous. He’s not stupid. It’s just so gung-ho and
intolerant of anyone getting a word in edge-wise. I mean, c’mon, is there no
humor in this?
City: Yes,
but you once said humor without malice is like a Pat Boone record on 11.
Rollins:
That was me taking Nietzsche and turning it into Henny Youngman.
City:
What’s up with Rollins Band?
Rollins:
I’ve got six months of talking shows until May. I’ll see those guys then.
I’m very proud of the records we’ve been making the last couple of years.
They’re full-on rock records. We just finished the Rise Above record.
City: That’s to benefit The
West Memphis Three. [Three teenagers, arrested
in 1993 in connection with the brutal murders of three eight-year-old boys in
West Memphis, Arkansas. Rumors surrounding the case supposed cult involvement,
and the teens were convicted amidst witch-hunt-type hysteria. For more info,
visit www.wm3.org.] How’s it going?
Rollins:
Thankfully, there was DNA evidence that was never tested. Now, with the
money we raised with the auction of the guitar used on the record, that money
went straight to DNA testing, which, by law, means the case gets re-opened. The
money we raised is going directly to DNA testing on fingernail scrapings found
under one of the dead boys’ nails. And even if the fingernail scrapings turn
out to be the flesh of Damien Echols and it nails him — which it won’t…
They’re quite innocent. Of this I’m
sure. I have some ideas as to whose flesh is under those nails. A lot of people
do.
City: Why did rock musicians
get behind this case so fervently?
Rollins:
Because it has a rock element. What the prosecution was calling evidence in
this case was stuff like black Pink Floyd T-shirts and a guy drawing pentagrams
in his school notebook.
Drawing swastikas, pentagrams, and
the girl you’re in love with hanging doesn’t mean you’re a murderer or a
Satanist. It means you’re emotionally fucked up, you’re hormonally intense, and
on your way to something else. You look back three years later and you go,
“God, burn this thing. It’s so embarrassing.”
It’s not lethal.
City:
Unless the police see it.
Rollins:
Unless the police see it in Arkansas.
They see it in Los Angeles and they go, “Yup, that’s my boy.”
If you nail everyone with a Pink
Floyd T-shirt and a Stephen King novel in this country, you wouldn’t have
enough shit to lethally inject into these motherfuckers to kill them all.
That’s why we got involved.
“You call that evidence? Not on our
watch, you don’t. Not in our USA.”
City: You now travel, telling stories of
your travels, where you get more stories to tell. You’re living the novel. How
does it end?
Rollins:
Maybe the way Miller wanted it to end, where you live so much and you see
so much, all of a sudden you just find yourself grinning ear to ear, sitting
still, content like Buddha. It’d be cool if there were two or three hot chicks
in cages next to me and a cooler full of cold ones.
Right now, I’m lovin’ the music,
can’t wait to do the talking show, got the movie thing cookin’ [Bad Boys II, out this summer], hosting Full Metal Challenge, on the Learning
Channel.
So, when does it end? How does it
end? I’ll be there whether I like it or not. Hopefully it’ll be with class and
with some dignity.
I think as I get older, if I go the
more literary, speaking trail, I’ll get better at it. Whereas, if I kept doing
music with the physicality I do, I might sully my back catalogue, which is what
I really want to avoid.
City: So, someday you’ll
just step down from the music?
Rollins:
Yeah. At this point, I only want to do it a certain way. I don’t want to
disrespect what I’ve done.
This article appears in Jan 29 – Feb 4, 2003.
