Amphipolis tomb could intensify Greece-Macedonia feud

1. Perhaps you should do a little research before posting your article. Even a little bit of wiki reading would of clued you in that the modern country of (FYROM) former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia has nothing to do with Macedonia of antiquity which was a Greek Kingdom.

2. Yes, I know, Alex. That hasn’t stopped present-day Macedonia from “claiming” Alexander as their own — including erecting a 72-foot-high bronze statue of him. And it has been widely reported that Greece wants Macedonia to change its name, mainly out of fear of “territorial aspirations.” There is plenty of documentation available outlining the feud between the two, including the fight over Alexander. Here’s just a single example, from the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte…

3. I think more accurate would have been to say Greek -FYROM ‘feud’ although I would describe it as FROM fantasy. Since the entire Northern part of Greece is Macedonia, hence the naming of FYROM.
   The excavation does reveal an ancient Greek Macedonian tomb. Guarded by Greek Caryatids constructed in Thasian marble in a Greek architectural style by a Greek architect and many more discoveries to follow.
   Since Alexanders father’s Tomb was already discovered in Greece this is just another
   addition to the many examples that exist.
   Alexander, father Philip mother Olympia three Greek names.Born In Pella, northern Greece, Tutored by Aristotle ,spoke Greek worshiped Greek gods, took part in the Olympic Games then solely for Greeks.
   Instead of Feiding I would describe the Skopians as Fuming, They can’t change history.
   They can build as many statues as they want but the originals are in Greece built by Greek Macedonians.

4. Macedonians were Greek and not Slavs. Your article is brilliant in that readers will flock to it. Greeks, to defend there heritage from it being stolen by Slavic peoples who have nothing to do with Alexander or Macedonia. I’m sure well hear from Fyrom devotees soon with their propaganda.

5. Historians and many others who are well read on Ancient Macedonia and Ancient Greeks will know that the two are not related.

   The modern Greeks of today shouldn’t be claiming Alexander the Great or anything to do with Macedonia as most of them are Christian Turks placed in Aegean Macedonia in the 1920’s.

   Greece only acquired Macedonia for the first time after 1913 and this was by military force and began an ethnic cleansing campaign of all the Macedonians in that region.

6. Feel sorry for the fyrom. Spent a billion on fake statues in the past few yeArs and then real ones appear where they belong in Greece. You can go to vegas to see a fake Eiffel Tower at the Paris hotel or go to Paris., France The history of alexander will not be stolen.

7. Thats like saying there is a feud between Florida and the U.S. Macedonia is a province/state of Greece and home of the ancient Macedonian Kingdom of antiquity.

   There are no doubts by any self respecting historian, Alexander the Great was a Greek, after all he spread Greek civilisation and culture as he marched eastward, not some pseudo-Slavic one.

   There is no feud, the only feud is the one Skopjans have with themselves.

8. @Venizelos. From 2 ancient historians. 1) Callisthenes; “Alexander came by the statue of his father and spoke loud:`Youths of the Pellasgians and of the Macedonian’s and of the Hellenic Amphictiony and of the Lakedaimonians and of the Corinthians… and of all the Hellenic peoples, join your fellow-soldiers and entrust yourselves to me, so that we can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage, for AS Hellene’s WE should not be slaves to barbarians.” & 2) Herodotus; “Men of Athens… In truth I would not tell it to you if I did not care so much for all Greece; I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Greece change her freedom for slavery.”

   These 2 great kings self identified as being Greeks (Hellenes), so that makes all of what u say, BS!

9. @Venizelos. From 2 modern historians. 1) Levinson; “It should be noted that there is NO CONNECTION between the ancient Macedonian’s of Alexander the Great who were related to other Greek [Hellenic] tribes……………………­…………and the modern so-called ‘Macedonian’s of today of the Republic of Macedonia’ [FYROM], who are of Slavic origin and related to the Bulgarians.” & 2) Borza; “The 20th century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, & it’s recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history & politics, the Macedonian’s who have had no history, need one”
   “The Macedonian’s are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs & Bulgarians”
   “If the claim is based on ethnicity, it is an issue of a different order. Modern Slavs, both Bulgarian & Macedonian’s, can not establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian Kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions – mostly emigres of US, Canada & Australia – even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity”

   Again, these 2 credible historians also make what u say, BS!

10. Not any of u Slavs can quote or site a credible historian or source that plainly states that the people of the FYR are related to or are indeed descendants of the ancient Macedonians… not one of u!!!

11. Good Evening,
    I find your comment interesting to say the least. The Greeks are desperately fighting to conceal the truth and their past. It would not only open a can of worms but also expose a moral disaster against the Greeks. And yes, i think through the correct channels and navigation, it would be morally just to seek the rightlful land and other financial issues which rightfully belong to the Macedonian people.
    Mr Venizelos, what are you gaining by exposing your lie!!! we have the opportunity to expose the pertenant truths to the wider communities and address proper historical facts.
    May i take this opportunity and mention the great work and exposure your giving to the wider community as a whole regarding the Macedonian issue.Let us also thoroughly expose the Biblical truths which will have no counter reaction from the Greeks as the writings in the Bible are written as historical facts. I have a strong belief that when we expose the Macedonian question through the Bible, any false and misleading information , would be like coming against a two edged sword.

    Once again,these are small snap shots from the Bible in reference to Macedonia.
    Some, i’m sure you will be very familiar with.

    1. Acts 16:6
    [ Paul’s Vision of the Man of Macedonia ] Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
    Acts 16:5-7 (in Context) Acts 16 (Whole Chapter)
    2. Acts 16:9
    During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.”
    Acts 16:8-10 (in Context) Acts 16 (Whole Chapter)
    3. Acts 16:10
    After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.
    Acts 16:9-11 (in Context) Acts 16 (Whole Chapter)
    4. Acts 16:12
    From there we traveled to Philippi, a Roman colony and the leading city of that district of Macedonia. And we stayed there several days.
    Acts 16:11-13 (in Context) Acts 16 (Whole Chapter)
    5. Acts 18:5
    When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.
    Acts 18:4-6 (in Context) Acts 18 (Whole Chapter)
    6. Acts 19:21
    After all this had happened, Paul decided to go to Jerusalem, passing through Macedonia and Achaia. “After I have been there,” he said, “I must visit Rome also.”
    Acts 19:20-22 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
    7. Acts 19:22
    He sent two of his helpers, Timothy and Erastus, to Macedonia, while he stayed in the province of Asia a little longer.
    Acts 19:21-23 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
    8. Acts 19:29
    Soon the whole city was in an uproar. The people seized Gaius and Aristarchus, Paul’s traveling companions from Macedonia, and rushed as one man into the theater.
    Acts 19:28-30 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
    9. Acts 20:1
    [ Through Macedonia and Greece ] When the uproar had ended, Paul sent for the disciples and, after encouraging them, said good-by and set out for Macedonia.
    Acts 20:1-3 (in Context) Acts 20 (Whole Chapter)
    10. Acts 20:3
    where he stayed three months. Because the Jews made a plot against him just as he was about to sail for Syria, he decided to go back through Macedonia.
    Acts 20:2-4 (in Context) Acts 20 (Whole Chapter)

    # AMPHIPOLIS » A city of Macedonia (Acts 17:1)
    # APOLLONIA » A city of Macedonia (Acts 17:1)
    # BEREA » A city in the south of Macedonia (Acts 17:10,13;20:4)

    LET THE BIBLE SPEAK FOR MACEDONIA!

    Regards
    George

12. @Aero123

    You are aware that the only reason the bible differentiates between Macedonia and Greece was because the Romans hade divided the Greek peninsula in those two ADMINISTRATIVE regions for administrative reasons. It does not prove anything more than we already know about Roman administration, but the fact remains is that the inhabitants of Roman Macedonia was Greeks, speaking Greek and worshipping Greek gods etc. Or to quote roman emperor Julian:

    “So Alexander joined the company of heroes, but neither Caesar nor anyone else yielded his place to him. However he found and took a vacant seat which the son of Severus had taken for himself – he had been expelled for fratricide.

    Then Silenus began to rally Quirinus and said, “See now whether all these Romans can match this one Greek.””

    From “The Caesars” written in 361 A.D. by Roman emperor Julian, page 316 in the original text

    “But so much perhaps I may say briefly and you may hear without weariness, that her family is entirely Greek, yes Greek of the purest stock, and her native city was the metropolis of Macedonia [Thessaloniki].”

    – Julian, “Praise For The Empress Eusebia”, p. 295′

    Or the words of an ancient Macedonian himself written in stone in 143 BC:

    “Damon son of Nicanor, Macedonian from Thessalonica for Quintus Caecilius son of Quintus Metellus, proconsul of the Romans, to the Olympian Zeus on account of his virtue (arete) and goodwill which he continues to manifest to myself and the homecity and the rest of Macedonians and the other Greeks”
    Google Damon of Thessalonica for source (it is an inscription in stone)

    Main point of all this being of course that you former self-identifying Bulgarians from ancient Paeonia are not fooling anybody by suddenly taking an hellenic name and claiming its history while the true descendants are still living proudly on the actual land of the ancient Macedonians speaking Greek just like their forefathers have for thoussands of years!

13. The Former Yugoslavian State , to the North of Greece has a ,Name it called Nova Vadaska.

    They also address themselves as Makedonski ..(ski) Slavic ,then Greece calls it province of Makedonia , linguistics,say it all .

    One is Slavic the other Hellenic.

    The Slavs came into the area 1500 after Alexander’s reign.

    The Bulgarians also speak Slavic, all of the artefacts are written in Greek not Slavic.

14. Read the article at the link below and also at the hyperlinks included in it for more information:

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_kPCrQrW3PLXBwTkV0bGdjMUU
    (left-click on the blue colored text, for more detailed information)

    This is the pure truth and no pseudo-Macedonian propaganda or tricky politics of the FYROM and its possible allies in the area, having their own expansionist interests (like Turkey, for instance), could ever change it!

15. КРАТКА ИСТОРИЈА НА МАКЕДОНИЈА
    И НЕЈЗИНИТЕ ЖИТЕЛИ СО ТЕКОТ НА ВРЕМЕТО

    Од своето појавување во 8 или почетокот на 7 век п.н.е., античкото кралство на Македон* беше јасно политички субјект кој му припаѓал на домородното население од грчко потекло, со оглед дека сите археолошки и епиграфски докази, како и делата на античките историчари (грчки или латински), покажуваат дека не само елитата, но исто така и обичните луѓе природно зборувале и пишувале грчки и следеле старогрчките верата и обичаите, на тој начин биле дел од античкиот хеленски / грчки свет. Тие не беа “хеленизирани”, како што некои се обидуваат да сугерираат, бидејќи не постои сигурен доказ дека се зборувал друг јазик на, различен од грчкиот или дијалект на тоа. Треба да се спомне дека античкото кралство ги имаше нејзините граници речиси целосно на територијата на денешна Грција (Северна Грција). Оние Грци кои живеат јужно од македонското кралство се политички организирани во независни градови-држави, како Атина, Спарта или Коринт. По освојувањето на јужните грчки градови-држави, Александар Велики го проширува своето царство и го трансформира во една империја (4 век п.н.е.), Александар Велики ја шири грчката култура и освои големи територии на исток, колку што е Индија, но, се разбира, сите овие територии не станаа “Македонија” засекогаш или продолжија да се нарекува како што се до денес (како Авганистан, на пример).

    Меѓутоа, подоцна, кога Римјаните ги освоиле териториите населени со Грци во грчкиот полуостров (континентална Грција), тие ги поделија во две провинции: Македонија во северниот дел (како што е споменато во христијанскиот Нов Завет – веродостоен историски извор) и Ахаја, во јужниот дел (понекогаш се нарекува “Ελλάς / Елас” или “Грција”, во потесна смисла на името). Интересно е тоа што Глава 17 од Делата на Апостолите (Библијата – НЗ) раскажува за Свети Павле како тој ги сретнува само Грците и Евреите во тоа време во Тесалоники, но не еден “етнички Македонец”, а да се биде “Македонец” имаше регионална конотација. Исто така, освојувачите одлучија да ја дефинираат територијата на провинцијата Македонија на нивната империја како поголема од онаа на претходното античко кралство, бидејќи тоа, исто така, се состои речиси на целата територија на денешна Албанија, Поранешна ЈугоСЛОВЕНСКА Република Македонија (ПЈРМ) ** и значителен соседен дел од Бугарија.

    Потоа, прибл. 1000 години по падот на грчката империја на Александар Велики, племињата на Словените го нападнаа регионот Македонија, но, до почетокот на 20 век, многу малку од нивните потомци мислеа за себе како “Македонци”, туку тие беа само регионално Македонци (како Евреите во Новиот Завет), кои живеат во близина на Грците.

    “Етнички Македонци” измамата, како и двете создавања на современата таканаречена (порано Социјалистичка) “Република Македонија”, официјално наречени денеска во Обединетите Нации како the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM / ПЈРМ), од страна на произволни преименувања на провинцијата на Југославија на реката Вардар или Вардарска Бановина, а апсурдна е надградбата на бугарскиот дијалект што го зборуваат нејзините жители (повеќето од нив имаа претходно бугарска национална свест) со таканаречен “македонски јазик”, беа промовирани и постигнати во средината на 1940-тите од страна на комунистичкиот режим на Тито. Диктаторскиот режим имаше преседан за нејзините чисто политички и иредентистички активности кон Грција по бугарските Илинденското востание против Османлиите (турската империја), кога Бугарите кои живеат во регионот Македонија, кој исто така сакаа да го анектира во поголема бугарската држава, почнаа да зборуваат за себе, како тие биле посебен вид на Бугарите, тоест “Македонци”.

    За време на Отоманската империја, немаше регионот (вилает) со името “Македонија”, но, поради горенаведените причини, Бугарите (проследено со денешно време од страна на државјани на ПЈРМ) силно ги охрабри употребата на името за поголема територија од поранешното античкото кралство, па тоа е причината зошто ги имаме денес, според словенското разбирање, овие “делови на Македонија”: Македонија во Грција (или “Егејска Македонија”), ПЈРМ (или “Вардарска Македонија”, претходно “Вардарска Бановина”) и Југо-Западна Бугарија, имено провинцијата Благоевград (или “Пиринска Македонија”).

    Дополнителни читање:

    Сонцето од Вергина (исто така познат како ѕвездата од Вергина, македонската ѕвезда, или Аргеадска ѕвезда) е соларен симбол со зраци, кој се појавува во античката грчка уметност од 6 до 2 век пред нашата ера. Тој доби голема важност по археолошките ископувања во и околу малиот град на Вергина, во Македонија, Грција, на местото на античкиот Ајге, за време на доцните 1970-ти. Таму беше прикажан на златен ларнакс од 4 век п.н.е. во кралската гробница која најверојатно припаѓаа на кралот Филип Втори Македонски, таткото на Александар Велики.

    Симбол на Сонцето од Вергина (кликни да ги видиш на сликата):
    http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/IPDL-IMAGES/SIXTERXML-IMAGES/images/gr1.jpg
    (регистрирани за Грција во Светската Меѓународната Организација на Имот)

    Симболот се појавува во уметноста различно со шеснаесет, дванаесет или осум триаголни зраци. Мислењата се поделени околу тоа дали бил користен како кралска симбол од страна на Филиповата Аргеадската династија [потекло од Аргос] или е религиозен симбол кој ги претставува дванаесетте олимписки богови. Шеснаесет и осум-зрачните сонца често се појавуваат во хеленистичките монети и штитови од тој период. Сепак, Сонцето од Вергина е посведочен во грчката уметност, вклучително и во јужните градови-држави, долго пред тој период. Претстави на хоплити (антички грчки војници) носат идентични шеснаесет-зрачни и слични осум-зрачни симболи на нивните оклопи и штитови во почетокот на 6 век п.н.е., како и на монети дизајнирани од островите и копното на Грција со осум или шеснаесет-зрачен сончев симбол.
    ____________________
    * Името “Македонија” потекнува од племенскoто име на античките Македонци, кои се потврдени во грчки извори како Μακεδνοί / Македни или Μακεδόνες / Македонес што вообичаено се објаснува со оригинално значење “високите оние” или “Планинци” и се поврзува со грчките зборови μακεδνός / македнос (долг, висок), потврдени кај Хомер и посведочена од Хесикиус Александриски како дорски грчки збор што значи “голем” или μακρός / макрос (долг, голем).
    ** Во времето на појавата на античкото македонско кралство, територијата на денешна ПЈРМ целосно се состоеше од древните царства на Пајонија и Дарданија, а само релативно мал дел од југот на ПЈРМ, регионот Пелагонија, припаѓал на македонското кралство.

16. A BRIEF HISTORY OF MACEDONIA AND ITS INHABITANTS OVER TIME

    Since its emergence in the 8th or early 7th century BC, the ancient kingdom of Macedonia* was clearly a political entity that belonged to indigenous people of Greek stock, considering that all the archaeological and epigraphical proofs, as well as the writings of the ancient historians (Greek or Latin), show that not just the elite, but also the ordinary people natively spoke and wrote Greek and followed the ancient Greek religion and customs, thus being part of the Hellenic/Greek world. They were not “Hellenized”, as some try to suggest, because there is no reliable proof they would have spoken another language of their own, different from Greek or a dialect of it. That ancient kingdom had its borders almost completely inside the territory of nowadays Greece, covering most of Northern Greece. Those Greeks living south of the Macedonian kingdom were politically organized into independent city-states, like Athens, Sparta or Corinth. After conquering the southern Greek city-states, while extending his kingdom and transforming it into an empire (the 4th century BC), Alexander the Great spread the Greek culture and conquered large territories to the East, as far as India, but, of course, not all those territories became “Macedonia” ever after or continued to be called as such until today (like Afghanistan, for instance).

    However, later, when the Romans conquered the territories inhabited by the Greeks in the Greek peninsula (mainland Greece), they divided them into two provinces: Macedonia in the North (as we find it mentioned in the Christian New Testament – a reliable historical source) and Achaia, in the South (sometimes called “Ellas” or “Greece”, in a narrow sense of the name). It is interesting that Chapter 17 of the Acts of the Apostles (the Bible – NT), records Apostle Paul meeting Greeks and Jews in that time Thessaloniki (Salonica), but NO “ethnic Macedonians”, while being a “Macedonian” had a regional connotation. Also, as the Roman conquerors decided to define it, the territory of their empire’s province of Macedonia was larger than the one of the previous ancient kingdom, by also comprising almost the whole of modern day Albania, the Former Yugoslav Republic of “Macedonia” or F.Y.R.O.M.** and a considerable neighboring part from Bulgaria.

    Then, approx. 1000 years after the demise of Alexander the Great’s Greek empire, the tribes of the Slavs invaded the region of Macedonia, but, until the beginning of the 20th century, less of their descendants would have thought of themselves as being “ethnic Macedonians”, while they were just regional Macedonians (like the Jews in the New Testament), living next to the Greeks.

    The “ethnic Macedonians” hoax, as well as both the creation of the modern so-called (formerly Socialist) “Republic of Macedonia”, officially referred today at the United Nations as the F.Y.R.O.M., by the arbitrary renaming of YugoSLAVIA’s province of the river Vardar or VARDARSKA BANOVINA, and the absurd upgrading of the Bulgarian dialect spoken by its residents (most of them having a Bulgarian national consciousness before) to the so-called “Macedonian language”, were promoted and achieved in the mid of the 1940s and the years to come by the communist regime of Tito. The dictatorial regime had a precedent for its purely political and irredentist actions towards Greece in the Bulgarian Ilinden uprising against the Ottoman (Turkish) empire, when the Bulgarians living in the region of Macedonia, who also wanted to incorporate it into a greater Bulgarian state, started to talk about themselves as they would have been a special kind of Bulgarians, that’s “Macedonians”.

    During the Ottoman empire, there was no region (vilayet) called “Macedonia”, but, because of the aforementioned reason, the Bulgarians (followed by the nowadays F.Y.R.O.M. nationals) strongly encouraged the use of the name for a larger territory than the ancient kingdom was, so this is why we have today, according to the Slavic understanding, these “parts of Macedonia”: proper Macedonia in Greece (or “Aegean Macedonia”), F.Y.R.O.M. (or “Vardar Macedonia”, previously “Vardarska Banovina”) and South-Western Bulgaria, namely the Blagoevgrad province (or “Pirin Macedonia”).

    Supplementary reading:

    The Vergina Sun (also known as the Star of Vergina, Macedonian star, or Argead Star) is a rayed solar symbol appearing in ancient Greek art from the 6th to 2nd centuries BC. It came to prominence following archaeological excavations in and around the small town of Vergina, in Macedonia, Greece, on the site of ancient Aegae, during the late 1970s. There it was depicted on a golden larnax found in a 4th century BC royal tomb most probably belonging to King Philip II of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great.

    http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/IPDL-IMAGES/SIXTERXML-IMAGES/images/gr1.jpg

    The symbol appears in art variously with sixteen, twelve, or eight triangular rays. Opinions are split over whether it was used as a royal symbol by Philip’s Argead dynasty [originating from Argos] or a religious symbol representing the twelve Olympian gods. Sixteen and eight-pointed suns often appear in Hellenistic coins and shields of that period. However, the Vergina Sun is attested in Greek art, including that of the southern city-states, long before
    that period. Depictions of hoplites (ancient Greek soldiers) bear identical sixteen-pointed and similar eight-pointed symbols on their armors and shields as early as the 6th century BC, as well as coin designs from island and mainland Greece bearing eight or sixteen-pointed sun symbols.
    ____________________
    * The name “Macedonia” derives from the tribal name of the ancient Macedonians, attested in Greek sources as the “Makednoi” or “Makedones”, which are commonly explained as having originally meant “the tall ones” or “highlanders” and being linked to the Greek words “makednos” (long, tall), attested in Homer and recorded by Hesychius of Alexandria as a Doric Greek word meaning “large”, or “makros” (long, large).
    ** At the time of the ancient Macedonian kingdom’s emergence, the territory of the nowadays F.Y.R.O.M. was almost entirely comprising the ancient kingdoms of Paeonia and Dardania, while only a relatively small part of southern F.Y.R.O.M., the Pelagonia region, belonged to the Macedonian kingdom.

17. Damon,
    This is what your trying to demonstrate aren’t you?! The Second Macedonian War! !!!!
    If you look closely, and by the way, this is from the Encyclopedia Britannica, please pay careful attention and look closely to the comment made below in particular how the roman administration applies a protectorate over Greece and pay attention regarding to the comment made re threat outside of Macedonia.

    Second Macedonian War (200–196)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! was launched by the Roman Senate against Philip after he refused to guarantee to make no hostile moves against these states. Philip’s forces were badly defeated by the Romans and their Greek allies in a battle at Cynoscephalae in 197. The terms of peace included the loss of most of his navy, payment of a large indemnity to Rome, and the loss of his territories outside of Macedonia. Rome subsequently established a benevolent protectorate over Greece.

    Damon, as I clearly addressed in my initial comment that the Bible is pure and factual!!!! Perhaps you did not take any notice of the Bible scriptures that I provided!
    Let me repeat the journey of the apostle which it clearly demonstrates the two seperate nations. A little bit of advice. Do not try and alter THE WORD OF GOD!

    New Living Translation

    Paul Goes to Macedonia and Greece

    1When the uproar was over, Paul sent for the believersa and encouraged them. Then he said good-bye and left for Macedonia. 2While there, he encouraged the believers in all the towns he passed through. Then he traveled down to Greece, 3where he stayed for three months. He was preparing to sail back to Syria when he discovered a plot by some Jews against his life, so he decided to return through Macedonia.

    Cheers
    Chat tomorrow…..its getting late here.

18. It does seems strange that a slavic people,the so called ‘ethnic Macedonians’ of the Republic of Macedonia, WHO settled in the Balkans in the 6th to 9th century AD speak a Slavic language that is the same as Bulgarian and Serbian, want to relate to an ancient northern Greek tribe – the ancient Macedonians. Its all just dodgy politics, FYROM has adopted the ancient Greek name of Macedonia (an ancient Greek Kingdom in northern GREECE) as part of their de-bulgarisation Policy and a way of unifying the various ethnic populations of FYROM (Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians, Turks, Vlachs and Roma gypsies) under a single banner name – that of Macedonia, and now,the nationalist government with its own nationalistic agenda is trying to fit history to suit the name.

19. aero123,

    You make much mention and use of the Word of God (the Holy Scriptures / the Holy Bible), and you also menace people to beware not to alter it, but that’s exactly what you do, like an authentic prideful heretic, and that’s not because you quote well-known verses from the New Testament, which can be freely read by everyone and like others wouldn’t have already done it ever, but because you quote all those ones referring to that time Roman province of Macedonia, and force their meaning in order to prove the existence of an otherwise imaginary Macedonian ethnicity. I can read about only Greeks and Jews, but no “ethnic Macedonians” or “Macedonian nation” in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 17, while Saint Apostle Paul was preaching in Thessaloniki (Slaonica) and Veroia/Veria (Berea):

    http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Acts-Chapter-17

    So, you might be reading another Bible the rest of us know and believe its Holy …

20. It’s simultaneously hilarious and sad that the descendants of Slavs want to “own” a Greek word like Macedonia.

21. Good discussion here, but please refrain from personal attacks or we’ll have to close-off comments.

22. H MAKEDONIA EINAI ELLINIKH! Period and check please!

23. A part of Macedonia for the first time in it’s two millennia history was incorporated into a greek state in 1913 after the Balkan wars. Before this no part of Macedonia has ever been in any part of greece.

    What the Macedonian people then faced was a brutal cultural and ethnic genocide by the Greek government, place names, towns where renamed to greek names, people where butchered, churches and graves desecrated.

    After the Greko-Turkish population exchange where 1.3 Million Turkish Christians settled Macedonia, they first learned the new Greek Language (Koine) and now these Turkish settlers proudly proclaim Alexander the Great as theirs.

    Modern Greece is a country created by the Bavarian Germans, with King Otto the Philhelene (lover of ancient Greece) instilling an ancient theme to a people who where a mixture of Albanian, Macedonian, Turkish and Greek. This ancient obsession is the only thing holding the Greek identity today.

    Genetics today has proven the modern Macedonians connection through DNA analysis to ancient Macedonians, therefor the modern Greek argument is completely and scientifically flawed.

24. Turkish Christians? Are you for real? Converting from Islam meant death! there have never been any Turkish Christians! There were however Greeks who lived in Anatolia for millennium who were forced back to their ancient homeland, different story altogether. And there has been no real DNA analysis that whatsoever claimed that you are ancient Macedonians, none. It is fantasy and propaganda, otherwise you would have been able to actually show this report from a trusted source. There have however been DNA analysis on Greeks showing us to be just that, Greeks and not turks or Albanians. And your own DNA analyses on your population has of course shown that you are closest (really close) related to Bulgarians and then Serbs, just Google “six year DNA study Balkans” and you can see for yourself what your own scientists got for results. For Greeks DNA analysis results I will give you an incredibly trusted source right here:

    “On the other hand, the similarities of Basques to French and Spaniards, of Greeks to Italians and of Icelanders to Norwegians are clear, even though all these populations are different enough from the rest of Europe that they are outliers in the tree”

    &

    “Likewise, Greeks show greater similarity to Austrians (and to other central Europeans) than to theirs nearest neighbors, the Yugoslavs.”
    – Both of the above from p.272 in “The History and Geography of Human Genes” (1994) published at Princeton university, a book which is considered to be a standard reference on human genetic variation.

    As for the glorious liberation of Macedonia to be united with the rest of Greece your are very lost I see. There was no united Greek nation state before 1821, true, but to say there was no Greece is just ignorant. Also I would be careful playing that game if I were you because if you hadn’t noticed your country which you claim is Macedonia has only existed around a very short 21 years. But that Macedonia was part of the region called Greece in ancient times (and had ancient Greek place names which YOUR people changed into the Bulgarian tongue and we changed BACK to its Greek original where applicable) we can ask the famous geographer Strabo and even Alexandros the Great himself:

    “Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece”
    – Strab. 7.fragments.9

    “Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Greece and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you.”
    – Alexander’s letter to Persian king Darius III of Persia in response to a truce plea, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian

    And as I posted before we can consult the writing of a “normal” Macedonian man (as in not part of the royal house) and clearly see what he writes about his ethnicity:

    “Damon son of Nicanor, Macedonian from Thessalonica for Quintus Caecilius son of Quintus Metellus, proconsul of the Romans, to the Olympian Zeus on account of his virtue (arete) and goodwill which he continues to manifest to myself and the homecity and the rest of Macedonians and the other Greeks”
    – Damon of Thessalonica, inscription from Elis, Olympia

    We can even jump forward over 1000 years into time when the Slavs where well established in the Balkans and we can ask Exaugustus Boioannes in 1041 what he as a Medieval Greek had to say about the Macedonians of old (as there where no separate Macedonians at this time, all Greeks were only counted as Greeks under East Roman rule):

    “Lads, have pride in your manhood, and don’t allow yourselves to have the hearts of women! What cowardice makes you always run away? Remember your forefathers whose courage made the whole world subject to them. Hector, the bravest of men, fell before the arms of Achilles. Troy was reduced to flames by the Mycenean fury. India knew of the gallantry of Philip. Did not his son Alexander through his bravery make the strongest of kingdoms submit to the Greeks? “
    – The Deeds of Robert Guiscard by William of Apulia

    And lets round of by jumping to the end of the East Romans empire and ask Laonikos Chalkokondyles who wrote in his “De origin ac rebus gestis turcorum” (first book) the following:

    “[…]the Lacedaemonians and the Athenians and after them the king of the Macedonians and those that succeeded him in power, and these events have been remembered and recorded as they have occurred by many other authors. Hellenes accomplished this over a long period of time.”

    I will leave you with the wise words of a french diplomat, well traveled in the Ottoman empire, as written down by Nassau William Senior:

    “Macedonia and Thessaly must of course be restored to Greece, from which they ought never to have been divided. In fact, they would give themselves to Greece. Nothing but force separates them from their fellow-countrymen on the other side of the absurd frontier line which the protecting powers drew across Greece.”
    – A Journal kept in Turkey and Greece in the autumn of 1857, and the beginning of 1858, Nassau William Senior, 1859, page 32)

25. An approach like the one of Peter Givens is nothing else than delusion of grandeur, because of believing that some modern people of an obvious Slavic culture, like those ones of the main ethnic group in FYROM are, would have any right to claim the Greek cultural and historical heritage of the ancient Macedonians, due to an alleged bloodline descending. In regards to Alexander the Great, he was a member of the Argead dinasty, meaning that his ancestors originated from Argos, a southern Greek city-state, and this corroborated with the fact that his native and adored culture was the Greek one, how can anyone affirm that he had no connection to what means to be Greek?

    If Mrs. Christine Carrie Fien will decide to delete my reply here, because of an alleged “personal attack” against Peter, as she previously warned us, though I actually spoke against his approach, then she should also delete his comment, which is an attack against the real academic education.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUSjsxGLtQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCYg1TvDM5Y
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKpvfiWN47k
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yanX4WhNNDk

26. Macedonia is an essential part of Greece! The puppet statelet of FYROM(ongolija), established by Tito just in 1945, has nothing to do with anything macedonian!

27. @George, Aero123, Reality check & Peter Givens, did any of u read my posts below??? When there are credible ancient & modern sources where testimonies of two great Macedonian kings of ancient Greece self identify as Hellenes (Greeks) then the argument stops right there. When we also have credible historians, archaeologists, anthropologist & linguists who also claim that today’s Slav’s of the FYR have nothing in common with ancient Macedonia, it also stops the argument in it’s tracks. As I have asked before, pls stop trying to prove that the ancient Macedonian’s were not Greek & that we are not Greeks. If the Macedonian’s were not Greek, then this does not make ur people Macedonian by default… Can any of u prove credibly that u r Macedonian & that u r descendants of the ancient Macedonian’s?…

    I GUESS NOT, IF U COULD, U WUD HAVE ALREADY DONE SO!

28. @Reality check

    Your referral to ‘Turkish Christians’ I assume is alluding to the Christian population of Turkey WHO were in the main descendants of ancient Ionian Greeks (but also included Romans) who had colonised the coastal regions of Asia Minor (modern Turkey) from 900 BC onwards – that is, 2000 years before the Turks arrived.
    As for ‘DNA’, here has never been any “DNA analysis” as you put it, relating modern Slavs of the ‘Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) with the ancient Greek tribe of Macedonians of Alexander the Great. That is patently absurd.

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