Edgewater Resources has presented new design concepts for the Port of Rochester project. In a written update, Greg Weykamp, president of Edgewater, says that the design is still a work in progress and is only meant to study the form of the building.
“It does not represent the final materials selection, but rather is meant to study how the program elements in the building fit together and create the shape of the building,” he says.
The port project includes a 10-story hotel, condos, and townhouses. But the project faces opposition from some Charlotte residents who says that the development would be too large, block water views, take away parking, and privatize the port.
Over the next few months, Weykamp says, Edgewater will work to incorporate comments from the City of Rochester’s Project Review Committee, refine building components, and continue to work on the overall shape of the building.
“Once that is resolved, we will go into greater detail on the materials, finishes, and final details that will bring the Upstate New York waterfront architectural style to life,” he says.
This article appears in Jun 3-9, 2015.
It was only two weeks ago when Kate Washington of the City of Rochester on Evan Dawson’s show announced to Rochester that Edgewater Resources has listened to the community concerns about the height of the building by reducing the number of stories to ten. Mr. Wykamp presented an updated design this week, see above, with twelve stories and a rather high roof which could be as much in height as two more stories. The SPECIAL city rezoning of the Marina site allows for up to thirteen stories, but neglected to specify the number of feet in a single story, The standard used is 10 feet. So, right now if that number of feet were followed, the building would be 130 feet high. Since the building’s first floor would be at 250 feet above sea level, the top of the building would be at 390 feet above sea level. The road surface at Lake is only 270 feet above sea level. So as you look up from Lake, there is nothing but building up 120 feet into the air.
I spoke with Mr. Wykamp after his update to the Charlotte Community Association. I encouraged him to do the necessary boring tests to determine the depth of the bedrock where he plans to build the first building. He agreed they need to do that research and won’t buy the property until that research shows they can economically build the structure as they believe today.
Mr. Gregor, the city engineer, has stated over and over that the bedrock is only about 55 to 60 feet down. He has also referenced in a recent Democrat and Chronicle article that they have done good research about the site with a geotechnical study dated March 2009, completed by Foundation Design’s Jeffrey Netzband, Vice President. That study references the depth to bedrock as 55 to 60 feet at the corner of Portside Drive and Lake Avenue (at the top of the gorge wall I have been referencing). The building is over 900 feet from that boring site. In that same reference to bedrock height, it goes on to say that the gorge wall drops off sharply to over 150 at the river (supporting my claim that the bedrock can be very deep and could drastically change the economics of building this structure).
The bedrock depth remains a huge issue in building this first structure because there are no boring tests to bedrock at the planned structure’s location. Therefore, actually going forward with t he building is probably only a 50/50 chance of happening. The city won’t admit it and Edgewater Resources won’t admit that, and Edgemere Resources won’t admit it. Yet, when you realize that there is not another example in the country of a waterfront project which is built on the wall of a gorge, you just might agree with me.
Why is this taking so long? I’m concerned that the city is asking taxpayers to subsidize a development for the rich. Why? Because, maybe, sometime down the road there will be a skating rink and public market for the common folk? It is what it is; welfare for the rich. I can’t condone this.
In my opinion there are more than “some” Charlotte residents against this development. There are many residents against this huge building that will probably sit empty 3/4 of the year. This huge building is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Although not needed, a smaller development (4 stories) would be a better fit. Of course a 4 story building wouldn’t have the million dollar view from the top floors so it wouldn’t be worth the developer’s time. I would rather see something that everyone could enjoy built on this public land like a giant ferris wheel, an aquarium, a water park, etc.
I’m not a Charlotte resident, not even city but live in the county. At one time I was a homeowner in Charlotte, about 38 years ago.
My opposition to this project is twofold. I think it’s a breech of the public’s trust to sell public land in such a promising area to a private corporation.
Historically, this parkland has always been for public enjoyment and entertainment, not for a privileged few.
There will still be public areas but where will we park? Shuttle buses to go to the beach sounds pretty ridiculous and would these be free of charge ? I seriously doubt it.
There are so many red flags on this project, so many issues.
If you look at the NYS audit of the failed ferry, the same “red flags” exist as they do for the current “Mistake-on-the-Lake” hotel/condos. Lack of community approval, shaky funding, and lack of marketing research. Edgewater says they have done marketing research, but the reality is that if they did, they would not even try to build it.
Their goal, we are sure, is to build it and sell it for a profit. It will eventually be all condos since there is no reason for that hotel.
Their intended condo customers — twenty-somethings and retirees — aren’t interested in living in overpriced housing in an area that, like anywhere around any NY state lake, is dead and uncomfortable in the winter months — November to May.
Any effective waterfront transformation is, above all, the experts say, centered on PUBLIC ACTIVITIES. Condos and a hotel don’t do anything for the community. That target group wants CONVENIENCE to shopping and other amenities. That location does not provide it.
It is an abomination that the City of Rochester is selling PUBLIC land to a PRIVATE developer. It’s a bad decision, just like the ferry was.
Add to ALL of that the fact of the shaky ground it’s build on, placing any resident or visitor at risk, and this decision will make the failed fast ferry look like a good idea.
Happy to see something happening. I’ve been waiting my whole life for Charlotte to be developed. What an embarrassment it’s been when a city of 1.1 million has a waterfront that basically is one huge parking lot that’s empty 355 days a year.
It is BEYOND A DISGRACE and A VERY POOR REFLECTION ON OUR MAYOR and CITY COUNCIL that as elected officials they continue to throw their support and continue their insistence on proceeding with their current Port development plan.
Whether it be in large public meetings (such as the one the Mayor attended last May 8, 2014, when..in response to the almost unanimous dislike of “her selected developer” and the plan he had submitted, Mayor Warren asked us to wait until the developer had time to come up with another plan, and PROMISED!!! that if that plan was also disliked..THE CITY WOULD GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!!!!
Since MAYOR WARREN’S PROMISE!!!! I have attended every public meeting where this plan has been discussed and 11 City Council meetings. At every meeting and during the Public Speaking portion of each City Council meeting there has been an overwhelming, ongoing outcry about the inappropriateness of the 10-story height (which as of a City Project Review Board meeting on Wed., 6.3.15 IS NOW INCREASED BUILDING HEIGHT OF 12-STORIES).
And, at a public meeting (to which the Mayor, City Council and other City Administrators were invited..but elected not to attend) where Bill Brown and Dr. Richard Young, a Distinguished Professor of Geology at SUNY Geneseo told about the extreme instability and porous condition of the soil where development is scheduled. Most people with one ounce of common sense are even more opposed to this development where Liquefaction (do an Image search of the term) is almost 100% guaranteed to occur.
There’s a small group that is opposed to this development project, however I think it’s important to point out that the general demographic of the opposition is not representative of the millennial target market this project is targeted towards. I haven’t seen a large number of millennial in heavy opposition at any of these Port of Rochester meetings. They have been a driving force behind the revitalization of many of the neighborhoods in our city.
I think this is an excellent project for the Charlotte community that will drive revitalization to the Port of Rochester. Building it in phases also gives the developer the flexibility to test the market and build it accordingly to market demand, reducing the risk the project will end up like the fast ferry.
If anything I wish they would get started sooner, I’m interested in being a tenant!
carlos5030, I question the veracity and sincerity of your comments, especially after doing a search for info under the name of “carlos5030”.
You mention the demographics of the opposition are not representative of the millennial market. The time frame for this classification of people varies, but from approx. the late ‘70’s through the late ‘90’s covers the largest portion, which gives millennials an approximate age of 16 – 36.
According to an article in this newspaper on 9.12.14, http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/roch… Mr. Weykamp said “The condos would probably start at around $200,000, Weykamp says, for a smaller, one-bedroom unit. The prices would increase with height and size all the way to the penthouse, which could go for more than $1 million, he says.”
Please note: The prices would increase with height and size…all the way to the penthouse…which could go for more than $1 million.
Since this is Rochester, NY and not NYC, there may be some people in the mid – late 20’s age group who could afford one of the lower condo levels (where there will be no views of the river or lake…only the parking lot and Lake Ave)…but how many of them would be able to afford a condo on the 7th floor, and how many in the mid-30 age group can afford “more than $1 million” for the penthouse.
Rather than pay for a condo with limited views…would it not make more sense to purchase a condo on the water such as this condo…2 floors for $199,900 http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/277-Bay-… or this nearly 3,000 sq. ft, 4 bedroom home, http://hollycreekhomes.idxco.com/idx/18361…
on Lake Ontario which has 100 feet of waterfront.
One would think an experienced and competent developer would do a market study to determine the need for the building he is considering constructing.
Rochester Young Professionals http://r-y-p.org/about-us has membership of over 5,000. Yet this group was never contacted by the City or Edgewater to see if this group of “local millennials” would consider purchasing one of their proposed condos.
Several of us have asked many times for market study results that “they” say they have…but the standard reply for this reasonable request is “this information is proprietary” and will not be shared.
Incidentally, I welcome comments, like yours, that give me a chance to respond with actual facts that continue to show what a TERRIBLE DISSERVICE THE CITY ADMINISTRATORS ARE DOING TO THE PEOPLE THEY WERE ELECTED TO SERVE AND PROTECT FROM AN UNNECESSARY AND OUTRAGEOUS WASTE OF THEIR TAX PAYER DOLLARS.
“The people of Rochester and all surrounding suburbs don’t realize how BIG a chunk of Charlotte beach property the City wants to sell. Once it is gone, it is GONE. The City wants to sell part of this uncut, unpolished gem, for development of privately owned condominiums and townhouses. Privately owned! Once they’re built, you won’t be stepping on that property again, unless you live in their apartments or condominiums. Another part of the beach parcel will be for a 10 story highrise hotel. Pfft! there goes the view…unless you’d care to rent a room.
Many people say they only come down to the beach a couple times a year….maybe because they have their own backyard pools. But let the City go ahead with its plans and the beachfront landscape with its public picnic grounds, concerts, boardwalk, and parking, will be forever changed. This wide open space with ample parking lots is going to shrink. And a few years from now, many Rochesterians visiting the lake, will say “what happened???!”
Most of us who are complaining about the development do so with one thought in mind: KEEP IT PUBLIC!!! We are not against development of our natural gem – we just don’t want to see it fall into private hands and turned into private lands. Use the land for stores, boutiques, restaurants, water parks. Whatever goes in at this space should be and must be for the PUBLIC. This land belongs to ALL OF US. Let’s not give it away to only those few who can afford to live there.
“The people of Rochester and all surrounding suburbs don’t realize how BIG a chunk of Charlotte beach property the City wants to sell”
Yes, it’s about 200×200 feet in probably about a 100 acre park. Maybe about 1%. None of the beach and none of the park. Just some unused parking spaces.
With each proposed design, could the City Newspaper overlay the design into a Google Maps so we have some idea of where exactly everything will be and how it will fit?
Are we really complaining about too much paved parking at Charlotte? Ugly parking lots are more appropriate for a public park than ugly residential towers; which, by the way, also need ugly parking lots around them.
That’s not a bad idea, Adrian. I’ll see what our art department thinks.
For the more than 40 year this sort of project has been springing up on our coastlines all across this nation. These projects seem to be part of a process of privatization which is been slowly excluding the public and particularly the public of color from water access. Scholarly studies, like http://www.cityprojectca.org/blog/wp-conte…, have demonstrated this beyond a doubt.
I think it is not out of line to ask the question if this project is part of a process which will privatize our presently public beach. After all it has take some beach property, has replaced some property which has customarily been used by the beach for parking, and has had a zoning change which makes it much harder for the public to stop further development. It seems that all safe guards which use to protect this beach have been removed.
This would be okay if our leaders were going to protect our beaches but this project has shown our local government is unresponsive to the public’s concern. Over and over polls have shown the public is opposed to this project from an RBJ poll to polls done at public meetings, to a survey is letters to the editor. Yet despite a mayoral promise by Lovely Warren to stop if the public opposed this project, it has been nothing but full steam ahead. Even when significant technical problems arose with the adjacent marina the city continued to pour money and support into this project.
So while I do not live in Charlotte I fear this is only the first step toward privatization of our coastline and one which will adversely affect our poor community.
Johny, for your information, the city describes the Project Location as follows:
“The approximately 22 acre City owned site known as the Port of Rochester (Port Site) is generally bound by the Genesee River to the east, the Hojack railroad to the south, Lake Avenue to the west, and Ontario Beach Park to the north. The Port site encompasses the porperties at 4590,4600, 4630, 4650 and 4752 Lake Avenue and 1000 River Street; and
South of the Port Site, the RIght-of-Way Improvements extend across parcels at 503,527, and 565 River Street; and
Also south of the Port site, the LIghthouse Trail project area includes two City-owned parcels at 4576 and 4580 Lake Avenue and portions of the County-owned Charlotte Genesee Lighthouse property at 70 Lighthouse Street, and the privately owned parcel at 4554 Lake Avenue. “
If your were to see a helicopter shot of the area the construction represents 70 to 80% of the 22 acres. The traffic study indicates that for standard events, the parking will be short over 700 parking places and the first new building will only have 53 underground parking spaces. Additional parking will be provided at Ridge Road and buses will be provided as necessary. There are no plans to widen Lake Avenue to better handle the traffic and River Street construction will not offer any real relief to the already busy traffic area.
The 22 acres is at least equal to, if not much greater than the Monroe County Beach area. I hate to see anyone get their numbers wrong, the City administration seems to have a habit of doing that often.
Oooooooh. I thought this article and all the complaints were about a 10 story building? Now it’s about the entire project? Well, I did just take a helicopter ride over it(google maps) and I still say it’s small comparatively. The marina will have a public promenade surrounding it. If you want to throw in all of the properties you mentioned as being heavily developed, then none of your facts should be taken seriously either.
Lol, look who we have making all the comments as usual. Marcia King, Lorily Bailey, Suzanne Phillips, and the self-appointed expert Bill Brown who has never built a building in his life, yet has deemed himself more of an expert than the builder. And we have our usual anti-development guru Alex White sticking his nose in again. Don’t be fooled by this minority of people everybody. They are just a small group who regurgitate the same bogus argument, comment after comment after comment after comment. This same group comes back day after day voting up each other posts. They are a small minority trying to look like a majority. Their act is being exposed. First the building was too big, then it didn’t fit, now they just think any development on the port is bad. Let’s stand up against these bullies and support a new Port Of Rochester.
This whole idea is a flop. I doubt there exists even one person willing to buy a million dollar condo in a tower at the Port of Rochester. Mother Nature is telling us to back off. We should listen.
Something I find very interesting..and “telling”..is that most of the people who have spoken against this inappropriate development put their money where their mouth is..so to speak..and their full names are displayed under their comments.
Then we have people like carlos5030, johnny and jasonw1 who cast aspersions on comments we have made..which are backed up by scientific information and other data which we have learned to be true from hours of research, numerous hours spent in meetings, talking with hundreds of people/general public, along with gaining over 2,500 signatures from others who share our concerns.
Bill does not have to be an engineer, architect or developer…nor does anyone else who is investigating the reasons why the current proposed development is wrong for the site on which it is scheduled to be built.
One just has to read through many links available on the City of Rochester’s own website to see information that raises questions about the wisdom behind the City’s insistence on pursuing this project.
And especially disturbing is the composition of soil and the amount of water within on the side of the gorge that was created by ice burgs thousands of years ago.
carlos, johnny and jason..were any of you at the presentation given by Dr. Richard Young, a distinguished geology professor at SUNY Geneseo on May 21, 2015? If so and you have IQ’s over 75,..and, especially if you are a City tax payer..you should be very worried about the great waste of tax payer money that will be needed to counter the disastrous effects of liquefaction that are almost 101% certain to happen when numerous pieces of heavy equipment start moving and removing soil, and try to come up with supports for 12+ story buildings that are now planned. People on some of the side streets across from the port area are already experiencing cracks in their walls..since the use of heavy equipment to remove soil began.
“carlos”, “johnny” and “jason”, I am not sure if you are all one person, or if you are a “plant” assigned to argue with only words and no valid information that refutes the fact-based comments made by Bill, Lorilyn, myself..and several others.
Anyone can say..you are wrong, etc. etc. etc., but to carry any weight, you need to come up with reasons for your belief and not hide from using your own name.
In closing, I encourage you to visits Dr. Brown’s website https://www.geneseo.edu/geology/young and continue to scroll down, and down and down and down..where you can read of his many, many awards, conferences where he was a speaker, articles he has written..oh, and he has also been featured in two different geology-related series on the History channel.
All of the time Dr. Brown has spent working with Bill Brown and helping us to gain accurate, irrefutable knowledge about the very poor, faulty soil at the Port, he has done as a courtesy, and in an attempt to keep a disaster from occurring.
It will be interesting if any of you..or all one of you..decide to question Dr. Young’s findings and, if any further negative posts related to the Port project are also made by one person/people who choose not to use their own/full name.
“money where their mouth is..so to speak”- Suzanne Phillips
Suzanne, I HAVE put my money where my mouth is, FOR REAL, not “so to speak”
The fact is, over the last number of years, this area for whatever reason, has continued to decline. I remember in my short lifetime about a dozen bars and restaurants. Nobody pushing shopping carts through the neighborhood and hardly any police, because there wasn’t a need. There’s just a handful of establishments now, but some even shut down on prime days in the summer.
In short, the proprietors of Charlotte by FACT have been poor stewards of this jewel. There have been plans for decades to fully utilize this prime area. Nothings happened. It’s not my first choice for a design either, but it’s time we move forward.
Time to Move Forward!!!
Now, Johnny, that is something on which we can both agree!!!! 🙂
I moved to Charlotte, with my husband and 15-mo-old daughter, 36 years ago. I love the area but KNOW!!! it can be much more than it is currently. Empty store fronts are eye sores, and the huge number of vacant houses..especially off Lake Ave, south of the high school, are a disgrace!!!
This quaint waterfront community should be a City of Rochester Gem, but, sadly, recent city administrations have not approached enhancing the Port area with common sense and a long-term goal in mind.
There should have been strong support..including financial grants, tax breaks etc..to encourage the growth of misc. small businesses that would provide an incentive to people to visit this area.
And, definitely, our waterfront is something that should be available and enjoyed by ALL…and it should remain “public” and not sold to a developer for his personal gain.
I am delighted about the Public Market that now runs on Monday’s at the corner of Stutson and Lake. 🙂 How wonderful it would be to have a boardwalk of little shops, and to also take advantage of some of the empty buildings…such as the Pres. Church on Stutson. Why not convert that into something like the Street of Shops…many indiv. antique dealers..on W. Ridge, near N. Greece Rd.?
The City wants a hotel??? The old Tape Con building on the corner of Latta and River St. would have been an ideal site for a small hotel…to test the waters on the need for a hotel.
Moving forward..with the RIGHT type of development that is appropriate for Charlotte, and that does not try to build structures on soil that cannot support 12-story buildings…Count me In!!! 🙂
If anything the comments from some of the folks opposed to this project in this thread has actually convinced me that this project is even more of a good idea.
Perhaps some of you should take a road trip to Manhattan to see how high a high rise actually is.