Brother
Wease is worried about his livelihood. Sure, the longtime on-air personality
for Radio Free Wease (6-11 a.m.
weekdays, 96.5 WCMF-FM) isn’t announcing “it’s over” like Howard Stern so
gloomily declared in early March. But the FCC’s latest focus on decency — and
the hefty fines it levels to broadcasters of inappropriate content — has
Wease questioning his every on-air move. Following is an edited transcript of a
recent conversation with Wease about decency, the FCC, right-wing radio, and
left-wing deficiencies.
City: Are you watching what goes on your program more carefully
now?
Wease:
One hundred million times more carefully. We’ve been given many, many
directives, some of which are so vague that I’m second-guessing a million
things. For instance, this morning we had a newspaper story from the Democrat and Chronicle about that weird
kid who worked at Clover Lanes. Well, in that story is the word “masturbate.”
And this is news. I’ve got to be paranoid this morning and didn’t even use the
word. I used “auto.” I mean, that’s how paranoid we are because we are being
threatened with many, many, many things, and I have four kids at home who need
me to make a living.
City:
How do you evaluate your show’s
liability for airing certain things?
Wease:
Well, I know what my show’s liability is. The liability is 100 percent.
We’ve already been told that if certain things happen — and I don’t even want
to tell you what they are, because I don’t want to open myself up — I’m done.
That’s it.
Right now they’re working on having
these losses be not only for the companies but for the actual DJs, the on-air
personalities. And this is an atmosphere that can make it impossible to do any
kind of a show except for a conservative talk show.
So, right now, I just try as best I
can to keep the show legit. Now, we do talk about sex, because sex is in the
news. And, like Howard Stern says, sex is on Oprah Winfrey’s show. It’s on Dr.
Phil. My show is about life. And sex is a part of life. I try not to have any
gratuitous sex on the show, which I did have years ago on my program. But years
ago I was aimed at a younger audience. I wanted to grow with my audience, which
I feel I’ve done. I used to do strippers and the whole thing.
City:
Yeah, I remember that. So you really
shifted away from that because you wanted to grow up with your audience?
Wease:
Yeah. I mean, in the past five years, we’ve had strippers maybe once,
twice? And we didn’t even get them naked. But that had nothing to do with
censorship. That was self-censorship.
City:
You never feel any pressure to reach
out to a younger audience?
Wease:
Never. That’s not my target. My show is number one in Rochester 25-to-54 by
a mile. By a mile. Now, WHAM can claim their 12-plus number, which is not a
number you sell, just a number you brag about. And WHAM’s 12-plus number is
completely loaded with people 35-to-death. And that’s a fact.
City:
What does ’12-plus’ mean?
Wease:
That’s the number of all your listeners together, 12 years old and older.
WHAM wins that right now because they’ve got everybody who’s over 50. They’ve
got nobody at all on the younger end. Howard Stern is 18-to-34. My show is
25-to-54, which is the finest money demo you can find. And at 25-to-54 I kill
WHAM.
I’ve grown with that audience from
18-to-34. I was number one 18-to-34 years ago. But now we’re number one
25-to-54. And I find what Howard does — to be honest with you, I don’t hear
it all because I’m on the air at the same time, but I often hear about the
repeated strippers, the same questions to people about sex — I find it
moronic.
We talk about sex, but in a
different way. I just don’t make that same joke. I just think it’s repetitive
and silly. And I see no reason to get chicks naked up in my studio like I once
did years ago.
City: FCC aside, what sorts of decency standards do you feel there should be for
people in your profession?
Wease:
Well, you know it’s so hard for me to say. Because for years I was so free.
One of the words that really kills me that we’re not able to use anymore is
“asshole.” I used to use a Denis Leary tune called “The Asshole Song.” It’s a
great tune.
Now it’s a backlash. I mean,
everything has been taken away. Up until a few weeks ago we couldn’t say
“handjob” but we could say “knobjob.” How stupid is that? The words we could
say were worse than the words we couldn’t say.
Of course, now I’ve lost all of
those because now it’s just vague. But, you know, the funny thing is that
newspapers can print “f—.” And there’s nobody who reads that who doesn’t know
what the fuck that is. So if your brain knows what it is, how are you getting
hurt? I mean, Goddamn!
Look, in this day of cable TV and
satellite radio, why can’t we let the parents themselves judge? That’s number
one. Number two: I personally find Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Michael
Savage way more heinous and hurtful,
and I mean hurtful, with their lies and deceit, than any dirty words about sex
on the radio.
I think the cumulative effect of
this silly censorship goes back to witch burnin’ and book burnin’, and it’s
ignorant. But I’m gonna follow the rules because I like to eat. I’m going to
continue to fight for free speech, but free speech doesn’t govern the airwaves,
and I can understand that also. I can understand a certain standard. I just
think the standard needs to be better defined. And I’ve always thought dirty
words don’t hurt anybody.
City: How are these standards presented to you by the FCC?
Wease: Well, it’s funny. Right now it’s pretty vague. But before the brouhaha since
Janet Jackson, before Howard was knocked off Clear Channel and the rest of it,
we had a whole list of words we couldn’t say. Not the seven. I mean way bigger
than the seven. But since then it’s worse and more vague.
City:How do you mean?
Wease:
I’m not really at liberty to talk about it. You’ll get me in trouble. [Democrat and Chronicle music writer]
Jeff Spevak did an interview with me recently about the previous list. And
we’re not allowed to show him the list, even though that list doesn’t exist
anymore. I’m just making a point that I’ve got to worry about this even. I
mean, we are at this place now that I can’t believe I’d ever be in.
City: Critics have said that radio and TV
content lowers “societal standards.” They say the mere fact that shows like
Howard Stern are on the air lowers the standards of discourse. How do you
respond to those types of criticisms?
Wease:
Well,
I’m gonna look like a huge hypocrite, but I agree with that. And I agree with
that especially because of MTV and Fox TV. And I’m not saying that because I’m
on the radio. It’s just that, as a parent, what I see on MTV now, I mean… if
children lived on a strict diet of MTV they’re gonna be products of that. And
it’s scary what you see there. And how can it not lower the discourse in this
country? I mean, pretty much everything’s about fuckin’.
But I want to make sure that people
understand that’s not what I’m about. You know, your newspaper seems to be from
the left. And I’m the only voice from the left on local radio. And the left
seems to think — and I think this is what’s wrong with the left, even though
I’m deeply into it — that people like me are a joke. And that’s the point
where they lose. Because I’m the guy who’s reaching the truck drivers who need
to hear this message.
Your newspaper does not reach those
people, and never will. If they [the left] hears me says that, it’ll just piss
them off more. But I’ll debate any one of them motherfuckers — with my
non-educated ass — on the radio anytime they want to debate. And I’d love you
to print that and face your readers with that.
City: But
the problem is there’s not a lot of places on the radio for these truck drivers
you’re talking about to turn to.
Wease: But listen: If [City Newspaper senior
writer] Jack Spula had a radio show, truck drivers aren’t going to listen to
him. Because he’s a fucking geek and he’s boring. I’m not saying this in a bad
way. I’m saying it as a fact. And it’s a proven fact. That’s why liberals
couldn’t have radio shows before, and that’s why the right wing makes fun of
the liberals.
Mario Cuomo is boring. Is he smart?
Absolutely. Does he have the truth? To me, absolutely. But he can’t reach the
truck driver. The right wing is reaching the truck driver. So when the people
from City Newspaper discount Brother
Wease because I’m dirty, then they’re fucking losing the fight, and it
infuriates me that I’m fighting on their side.
I mean, you guys did a cover story
on Bob fucking Lonsberry. And that’s the guy who I fought constantly and I
would debate any day. He’s a guy who’s on the opposite side of the political
coin as your newspaper, and who promoted him? Your newspaper! When did you do a
cover story about the only motherfucker who fights for the liberal side on the
radio? And I’ve converted people. I’ve got mail from them. Your paper ain’t converting
shit. Your paper — I love it — but it speaks to the choir.
City:Those
stories are profiles, not promotions.
Wease:
But anything is promotion. Like, right now, Howard Stern’s problem is
hugely in his favor. I mean, the guy’s a fucking martyr, he’s huge. So he’s a
winner-winner on that situation. And when you put Bob Lonsberry on your cover,
it’s a humongous win for that guy. And I read the article and it wasn’t even
that bad.
What’s good about you guys is you’ve
got the cool music stuff, and you’ll hit the young people. So they’ll check the
politics out, which they should. But the scary part is there’ve been newspapers
like yours since the beginning of time. And the fact is the music and stuff you
cover is for hipper people too. So the same hip kids that might be on the left
are reading the paper. You’ve got to somehow — and all you need is one
fucking brainstorming meeting or something — figure out how you can get to
the point where you can appeal to the middle guy, so they can start seeing
another side of the coin.
I’ve seen letters to your newspaper
from the right. So at least that means they are looking at it.
City:We
have a lot of readers on the right.
Wease: That’s great. See, the reason why right radio is so huge is because it’s great
radio. And I mean great radio. So on the one had I appreciate that, but on the
other it infuriates me.
I was talking today to a debate
coach from the UR. He also listens to right radio. He understands that it
infuriates you, but it’s great radio.
City:
What is it that makes it great?
Wease:
The fact that I listen but I hate their guts. If I’m listening to something
I hate, that’s great radio. When I get hate mail from people on the right, I
write them back and piss them off to death. Because I explain to them that I’m
doing great radio. And the truth is that I move them to a typewriter. They
didn’t write Chet and Beth, because they didn’t move them. I move them to write
me, and that really pisses them off.
City:Would
you let your kids listen to shows like Stern?
Wease: I believe if you’re old enough to listen to Stern and enjoy it, then to me,
you’re old enough to listen and enjoy it. Because I come from a different
place. I don’t think sex is bad. I don’t think dirty talk is bad. I’d feel
worse knowing my kids were listening to Hannity. Because then you’re being
filled with hateful lies that will shape your thought patterns on social
issues. Howard Stern and those other guys are just doing jokes. And the worst
part about them is they’re about sex, and I don’t believe sex hurts anybody. I
mean, he’s not telling people to go do crack. He’s not telling people to go rob
a bank.
This is a bad time, man. We’ve got
McCarthyism coming back, and the right wing has got a boner. I have never
wanted anybody to win an election more in my life — and I don’t necessarily
like the guy. But when you say “Anybody but Bush,” I ain’t kidding, you give me
a monkey. We’re just trying to beat the right wing. He’s just a figurehead.
This is insanity going on.
City:Your
show has taken flack over the years for what critics call sexism in the
terminology you use — words like “broads,” that kind of thing. What kind of
feedback have you personally gotten for that stuff?
Wease:
The bulk of the listeners think it’s a joke when people get upset over that
stuff. It’s funny you mention “broads,” because that’s one word in particular
that I’ve been using for 150 years. It’s not meant in any way that an uptight
asshole would take it. The same people would love Frank Sinatra if he said it,
but would kill me if I said it. I just figure that the way we use it, if you
use it enough, the people who listen regularly to the show would realize it’s
nothing. I just don’t
understand any humans at all that take offense to terminology. But there’s
nothing I can do about that. So I’ll accept any of those rants because the
people who know us know we’re the opposite of that, that we come from the
opposite side of the coin from where some of these people may think.
And that’s what used to kill me
about the difference between Lonsberry and myself. How this works
psychologically I’ll never understand. But the people who listen to a show like
Lonsberry are middle Americans who think they’re all moral. He’s still on a station
in Salt Lake City that’s “family values talk radio.” It freaks me out that the
average Bob Lonsberry fan sees me as a scum bag. But I fight for human beings.
City:
So do you think all this decency
stuff is a big smokescreen?
Wease: Yeah, it’s more forced morality that’s not even moral. People who listen to
Hannity or Lonsberry think I’m a scumbag, but I’m on the air fighting for gay
marriage. I’m fighting for affirmative action. I fight for all the liberal
social causes. I’m against the war. These people are for wars. It’s all good:
Kill people.
The funny thing about Clear Channel
is that’s it’s a known fact they’re in bed with George Bush. And they were
dirtier than Infinity by a mile before this thing happened.
City:Clear Channel has received its fair share
of fines from the FCC.
Wease: Oh, Clear Channel was dirty, man. Before this thing here they were way dirtier
than Infinity. That’s why it’s so funny that they let Stern go. We kept him on
Infinity, where he comes out of, because we were cleaner than them to start.
City:And Clear Channel is like Ground Zero for all
the conservative talk shows.
Wease: Oh, that’s where they all is. That’s their place, man. They’re Bush people.
This article appears in Mar 31 – Apr 6, 2004.
